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Jeff
01-03-2008, 10:46 AM
Do you have any qualms or problems if ever Gay Priest will be tolerable or acceptable to priesthood specifically here in our country?

Wowie
01-06-2008, 12:48 PM
Gay priest is everywhere, I know a handful of them. But since they hide it and act like a man it can't be noticed by the common eyes.

Gay priest should not be accepted to priesthood, becuase of the fact that its immoral to the eyes of people and the eyes of our Almighty God.

since1980
01-06-2008, 01:39 PM
^^^
How is being a gay priest immoral, is there a particular line in the Bible that says any gay person is automatically immoral?

Wowie
01-06-2008, 04:04 PM
homosexual behavior is describe in the scripture that it an unnatural, immoral perversion.

“For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another…” (Romans 1:26-27).

agta
01-06-2008, 05:31 PM
Pope John Paul II (http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/jp2tb13a.htm) said,
"4. There is a deep connection between the mystery of creation, as a gift springing from love, and that beatifying "beginning" of the existence of man as male and female, in the whole truth of their body and their sex, which is the pure and simple truth of communion between persons. When the first man exclaimed, at the sight of the woman: "This is bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh" (Gn 2:23), he merely affirmed the human identity of both. Exclaiming in this way, he seems to say: here is a body that expresses the person!

Following a preceding passage of the Yahwist text, it can also be said that this "body" reveals the "living soul," such as man became when God-Yahweh breathed life into him (cf. Gn 2:7). This resulted in his solitude before all other living beings. By traversing the depth of that original solitude, man now emerged in the dimension of the mutual gift. The expression of that gift—and for that reason the expression of his existence as a person—is the human body in all the original truth of its masculinity and femininity.

The body which expresses femininity manifests the reciprocity and communion of persons. It expresses it by means of the gift as the fundamental characteristic of personal existence. This is the body, a witness to creation as a fundamental gift, and so a witness to Love as the source from which this same giving springs. Masculinity and femininity—namely, sex—is the original sign of a creative donation and an awareness on the part of man, male-female, of a gift lived in an original way. Such is the meaning with which sex enters the theology of the body."

agta
01-06-2008, 05:40 PM
"It would seem that if there are firmly established facts, both from an objective psychological evaluation and an examination in the external forum of past and present behavior and choices, that a man does indeed suffer from S.S.A. as an “exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex” (Catechism, No. 2357), then he should not be admitted to holy orders, and his presence in the seminary would not only give him false hope but it may, in fact, hinder the needed therapy and healing that might come from appropriate psychological and spiritual care. It may be that a man could be healed of such a disorder and then he could be considered for admission to the seminary and possibly to Holy Orders, but not while being afflicted with the disorder (http://www.americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=2513)."

Also, please read: Homosexual Theology (http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/homotheo.html)

Jeff
01-08-2008, 03:31 PM
I hope if that time will come (sana wag naman) that vatican will allow gay priest to officiate any church services, pray ko lang na sana they are harmless or they are not playboy or playing with boys.

Europa
01-08-2008, 10:02 PM
Gay Priest, Gay Politician, Gay Individual Or Homosexual It Doesnt Matter Who You Are, What Is Your Sexuality Is Not A Question Of Your Behavior Or Character, Kung Talagang Criminal Ka Or Rapist Or Maitim Ang Budhi Walang Kinalaman Ang Pagiging Gay Mo..i Have Known A Lot Of Gay Person They Are Loving Honest And Sweet And Very Good And Loyal Friends. Para Sa Akin Tanggap Ko Ang Pagkatao Nila. Kasi Hindi Naman Komo Gay Ang Tao Or Pari Rapist Na, Susmaria Naman, Nasa Individual Yan Eh

agta
01-09-2008, 01:01 AM
Gay Priest, Gay Politician, Gay Individual Or Homosexual It Doesnt Matter Who You Are, What Is Your Sexuality Is Not A Question Of Your Behavior Or Character, Kung Talagang Criminal Ka Or Rapist Or Maitim Ang Budhi Walang Kinalaman Ang Pagiging Gay Mo..i Have Known A Lot Of Gay Person They Are Loving Honest And Sweet And Very Good And Loyal Friends. Para Sa Akin Tanggap Ko Ang Pagkatao Nila. Kasi Hindi Naman Komo Gay Ang Tao Or Pari Rapist Na, Susmaria Naman, Nasa Individual Yan Eh
Sexuality! Talking of sexuality. Did not God make man male and female only?
What do you think is the reason why there are individuals who want to call or label themselves as gays or homosexuals? What for, when as you said their behavior or character is unquestionable?

Europa
01-09-2008, 02:04 AM
Well its my own opinion lang maam, kasi marami din naman tao dyan hindi bakla, hindi homosexual pero QUESTIONABLE din ang mga asal, reality lang ang sa akin. or maybe nasabi ko yan dahil may ugaling BAKLA din ako paminsan minsan.

Jeff
01-09-2008, 12:48 PM
Priests are known to be fishers men, not fishers of sheman. I look priest as the model, Shepherd, tough, spiritual guidance, man with integrity, man of God, preachers of good news, seekers of truth, balance and holy.

agta
01-09-2008, 09:32 PM
Well its my own opinion lang maam, kasi marami din naman tao dyan hindi bakla, hindi homosexual pero QUESTIONABLE din ang mga asal, reality lang ang sa akin. or maybe nasabi ko yan dahil may ugaling BAKLA din ako paminsan minsan.

Ano, halimbawa, ang ugaling masasabi nating sa bakla? At bakit natin sasabihin na ang ugaling iyan ay sa bakla? Pag ang tao may ugaling ganyan, automatic na ba na siya ay bakla? When do we consider a person a gay or homosexual?

Jeff
01-11-2008, 02:20 PM
Much of our society has embraced many perverted sexual practices that are considered in the Bible as abominations to God. Homosexuality is among the list of deviate or abnormal sexual practices however, there are many other practices that can be included as well. Pornography, pedophilia, prostitution, bestiality, oral sex, phone sex and computer virtual reality sex, just to name a few of them.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Although the Bible doesn't detail each and every one of these sinful acts, it does clearly speak out about many of them. Any deviation from God's original plan for sex between a married man and woman is still a sin in God's eyes. The main reason we call these things perverted is because they are unnatural and scripture clearly tells us those who do such things are committing abominations. Leviticus 18:22 (KJV): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination."
Homosexuality is also referred to as the sin of sodomy. This reference comes from an account in the Bible of two exceedingly wicked cities, Sodom and Gomorrah, which the Lord destroyed. Sodom was known for its rampant homosexuality and unrestrained sexual lust, as well as other sins such as arrogance, haughtiness, and disregard for the poor. When the Lord sent angels to warn Lot who lived in the city that it was about to be destroyed, the men of the city actually wanted to rape the angels! Genesis 13:13: "But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly."

In the Old Testament the penalty for this sin was severe. Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Today the penalty of death comes in the form of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases. It also brings death to the soul and spirit of man because the life of God is pushed out by indulging in something that is an abomination to God. God wants to deliver all who are trapped in this unholy practice and He will if anyone calls out to Him with a sincere heart.

justme
01-11-2008, 03:45 PM
jeez, man, is this you pare... talking all this..hehehe... parang di yata bagay sayo..hahaha...joke lang po....peace...

Europa
01-11-2008, 11:21 PM
Ano, halimbawa, ang ugaling masasabi nating sa bakla? At bakit natin sasabihin na ang ugaling iyan ay sa bakla? Pag ang tao may ugaling ganyan, automatic na ba na siya ay bakla? When do we consider a person a gay or homosexual?

Mahirap ngang isipin at kilalahanin, specially a lot of them want to hide it and try to act normal, as I said I have a friend a very good friend a Vice President in a International Bank, he is married with 2 children. he is very close to me and one day he made a confession. telling he is a GAY but he tried to hide it to the whole family, he got married to prove to himself that he can make it or fight with it. although shock ako, dahil manly man talaga ang looks nya, I cannot judge him for he never done something wrong but feeling being a woman when in the body of a macho man. Mahirap pero alng alng sa pamilya tiniis nya ang sarili. Ako man nagtatanong dapat nga bang husgahan ang tao dahil GAY or homosexual siya??Para sa friend ko takot, hiya, hirap ng kalooban na baka kasuklaman at itatuwa siya ng lipunan at pamilya. Sino AKO para husgahan ang kanyang katauhan..???

Jeff
01-15-2008, 04:28 PM
One of the problems that has developed out of the crisis has been the situation of gay priests. Pope John Paul II had censored any discussion of what role priestly celibacy may have played in the actions of the accused priests, but not so with homosexuality. Statements from Vatican officials have expressed strong disapproval of the very existence of homosexuals within the priesthood — the presumption being that the sexual abuse problems are caused by gays and that if they disappear, then so will the problems.

Aside from this issue, still there are some cases (not isolated) wherein priests sexually abused children...napakahirap at masakit isipin pag nakabasa at makabalita tayo ng ganito.

jun villato
01-24-2008, 04:29 PM
God Is The Only Creator Of Us..
He Create Gays And Lisbians
Male And Female>>>>
But There Are Some People Discriminate
Those Gays And Lisbians,
We Must Be Fair
Becuse They Dont Want That Kind Of Life
I Have A Lot Of Friends Gays And Lisbians Most Of Them
Want A Normal Life..
Try To Ask Them If The Wants That Kind Of Sexuality

agta
02-04-2008, 10:33 PM
Mahirap ngang isipin at kilalahanin, specially a lot of them want to hide it and try to act normal, as I said I have a friend a very good friend a Vice President in a International Bank, he is married with 2 children. he is very close to me and one day he made a confession. telling he is a GAY but he tried to hide it to the whole family, he got married to prove to himself that he can make it or fight with it. although shock ako, dahil manly man talaga ang looks nya, I cannot judge him for he never done something wrong but feeling being a woman when in the body of a macho man. Mahirap pero alng alng sa pamilya tiniis nya ang sarili. Ako man nagtatanong dapat nga bang husgahan ang tao dahil GAY or homosexual siya??Para sa friend ko takot, hiya, hirap ng kalooban na baka kasuklaman at itatuwa siya ng lipunan at pamilya. Sino AKO para husgahan ang kanyang katauhan..???
When he confessed to you that he is GAY, in effect hinusgahan niya ang kanyang sarili. It is not we who judged him but he to himself.

agta
02-04-2008, 10:36 PM
God Is The Only Creator Of Us..
He Create Gays And Lisbians
Male And Female>>>>
But There Are Some People Discriminate
Those Gays And Lisbians,
We Must Be Fair
Becuse They Dont Want That Kind Of Life
I Have A Lot Of Friends Gays And Lisbians Most Of Them
Want A Normal Life..
Try To Ask Them If The Wants That Kind Of Sexuality
What is you proof that God created Gays and Lesbians? That is not true. God created only male and female. We can read it in Genesis. If they don't want that kind of life, then why cling to it?
Don't they have reason and free will?

Jeff
02-05-2008, 09:07 AM
What is you proof that God created Gays and Lesbians? That is not true. God created only male and female. We can read it in Genesis. If they don't want that kind of life, then why cling to it?
Don't they have reason and free will?


Yes, there is no mention about being lesbian or gay in the bible. It is simple as Man and Woman. But still I can't comprehend why and how do our fellows transform into gays and lesbians. Is it because that they are being influence?, Is it hereditary? Is it a form of social status? Being a rebel? Adventure? Or trip lang nila?

Bill Gregory
02-05-2008, 07:42 PM
......but for many periods through history it has been unmentionable. Certainly the Greeks encouraged it among their warriors on the basis that soldiers would fight better if their lover were next to them, both to protect and show off to their partner.

It is a fact of life and my only concern is about people in society who have a position of trust and in whom we place our confidence and our children. When someone abuses that trust, there is no punishment too awful to countenance.

agta
02-06-2008, 12:18 AM
......but for many periods through history it has been unmentionable. Certainly the Greeks encouraged it among their warriors on the basis that soldiers would fight better if their lover were next to them, both to protect and show off to their partner.

It is a fact of life and my only concern is about people in society who have a position of trust and in whom we place our confidence and our children. When someone abuses that trust, there is no punishment too awful to countenance.
What? The Greeks encouraged it among their warriors? They encouraged homosexuality? You must be joking! Please show evidence that Greeks encouraged homosexuality...otherwise Greece would "kill" you!

agta
02-06-2008, 12:40 AM
Yes, there is no mention about being lesbian or gay in the bible. It is simple as Man and Woman. But still I can't comprehend why and how do our fellows transform into gays and lesbians. Is it because that they are being influence?, Is it hereditary? Is it a form of social status? Being a rebel? Adventure? Or trip lang nila?
various theories could be posed why our fellows transform themselves into "GAYS". There are also various theories why some of our fellows become criminals. What then? Are we to tolerate homosexuality because there are many who declare themselves as homosexuals?

JustPassingBy
02-06-2008, 12:41 AM
Yes, there is no mention about being lesbian or gay in the bible. It is simple as Man and Woman.

You are dead right on this one.



But still I can't comprehend why and how do our fellows transform into gays and lesbians.
It’s the same way why you cannot comprehend how a person turn out to be a murderer, rapists and so on.



Is it because that they are being influence?, Is it hereditary? Is it a form of social status? Being a rebel? Adventure? Or trip lang nila?


No, it is because they choose to sin. Homosexuality or sodomy is an abominable sin towards the Lord God.

Read one of the commands in Leviticus 18:22 – "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." (KJV)


ciao,

JPB

Bill Gregory
02-06-2008, 01:59 PM
What? The Greeks encouraged it among their warriors? They encouraged homosexuality? You must be joking! Please show evidence that Greeks encouraged homosexuality...otherwise Greece would "kill" you!

Try Google and type in "Ancient Greece" + Homosexuality. You will get URL's for more than 20,000 hits. Why should I joke about historical fact? Why should you suggest people will kill me?

Jeff
02-06-2008, 03:50 PM
You are dead right on this one.

It’s the same way why you cannot comprehend how a person turn out to be a murderer, rapists and so on.



No, it is because they choose to sin. Homosexuality or sodomy is an abominable sin towards the Lord God.

Read one of the commands in Leviticus 18:22 – "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." (KJV)


ciao,

JPB


Meaning being a lesbian or gay is a kind of sin? What do they can get out of being gay or lesbian? For various crimes like murder, people tend to kill maybe because of passion, hate, revenge. For rape, because of lust, revenge, passion. All of those known crimes has reasons or roots but for being a gay or lesbian it's difficult to categorize the roots of being so if that is considered as crime.

Bill Gregory
02-06-2008, 04:32 PM
I’ll just add a few more comments if I may.

I don’t believe homosexuality or its female equivalent is hereditary, it’s probably just a mix-up in the genes or what-have-you that affects a not inconsiderable number of people. There is another group of people who can swing both ways, but I won’t discuss those. The first group perhaps we should be very sympathetic to and supportive of – they have no choice and cannot live a normal life in our terms. I also believe that homosexuality can be taught, so I will fight against anyone trying to trap youngsters into such a life. Paedophiles or Pederasts deserve the harshest imaginable punishment as do those who harbour and protect them,

Now I will suggest that homosexuality is not in any way a sin. Those who quote the Bible to justify their intolerance should perhaps first try to educate themselves a little better. You can use the Bible to justify anything, and that is not what it’s for – it is all about humanity, love, understanding, tolerance and full of practical lessons about how to live a good life. It is not meant to fuel your hatred or resentments. If you think homosexuality is a sin then avoid any contamination of yourself – don’t attend any fiestas where the Barangay has or has had a Miss Gay competition, don’t ever go to the NIT or the new Gymnasium, don’t mix with neighbours whose daughter has had a gay prepare her for a contest, caked on her makeup for a wedding. Don’t do such things and your views are reflected in the way you live. I will support you and your right to your views – but be hypocritical then I’m afraid you will not be deserving of any respect at all from anyone.

Only less advanced and third-world countries brand homosexuality as a sin or a crime – the enlightened countries have abandoned the ignorance that once pervaded their peoples. The Catholic Church opposes gay marriage and the social acceptance of homosexuality and same-sex relationships, but teaches that homosexual persons deserve respect, justice and pastoral care. However the Catholic Church also has a very bad record in sheltering paedophile priests (search on Crimen Sollicitationis on Google), and they are now paying the penalty, particularly in the US. They will not tolerate Gay Marriage because their policy is ‘have as many children as possible as long as they’re Catholics’, which is in direct contradiction to what’s needed in the Philippines. In all this you have to separate Catholicism as the religion and the Roman Catholic Church as the political entity.

I think I’ve said enough. If I’ve annoyed anyone, please send back your disagreements in a sensible and properly thought out form. I believe in what I say, so please be constructive in trying to persuade me that I might have some things wrong. That’s not much to ask.

JustPassingBy
02-06-2008, 11:10 PM
Meaning being a lesbian or gay is a kind of sin? What do they can get out of being gay or lesbian? For various crimes like murder, people tend to kill maybe because of passion, hate, revenge. For rape, because of lust, revenge, passion. All of those known crimes has reasons or roots but for being a gay or lesbian it's difficult to categorize the roots of being so if that is considered as crime.

Again, you must differentiate the two. Sin differs from crime, not in nature, but in application. That which is a crime against society, is sin against God. Sin is a voluntary departure of a moral agent from a known rule of rectitude or duty prescribed by God such as homosexuality. It is a voluntary transgression of the divine law of procreation between man and woman and a violation of a divine command. In other words, homosexuality is a wicked act against God.

Whereas crime is an act that violates a law whether God’s or human. It is an act against the laws of right, divinely prescribed or mans. In a common and restricted sense for example, a crime denotes offences against the laws made to preserve the public rights. Thus rape, murder and the like is a crime against God and humanity but homosexuality is a gross sin against God for it violates a moral command of procreation given by God only to be practiced by both man and woman and not between the same sex individuals. Homosexuality is not a crime against humanity but against nature. It’s an emotional problem that starts in the mind of an individual.


JPB

agta
02-07-2008, 06:36 AM
Try Google and type in "Ancient Greece" + Homosexuality. You will get URL's for more than 20,000 hits. Why should I joke about historical fact? Why should you suggest people will kill me?

It would have been easier for all of us if you just put in here the link to your source. In that way we would be talking of the same reference. In all my hits, I have not read that Greece encouraged homosexuality.

Jeff
02-07-2008, 08:40 AM
Committing crime is a sin vice versa. Either sinning towards nature/devine laws or in views of men still its a sin or crime (something that deviates the so called common law). But in the case of homosexuality if we have to buy out the opinion that being gay or lesbian maybe a cause of genetic disorder if that is possible, meaning being a lesbian or gay is still considered a sin or crime?

Bill Gregory
02-07-2008, 09:52 AM
It would have been easier for all of us if you just put in here the link to your source. In that way we would be talking of the same reference. In all my hits, I have not read that Greece encouraged homosexuality.

I don't have A SOURCE - anyone who has knowledge of the Ancient Greek civilisation/history knows these things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_militaries_of_ancient_Greece

http://www.truthtree.com/pederasty.shtml

I hope these help

JustPassingBy
02-07-2008, 04:11 PM
I’ll just add a few more comments if I may.
I don’t believe homosexuality or its female equivalent is hereditary, it’s probably just a mix-up in the genes or what-have-you……

There is no such thing as “mix-up in the genes or what-you-have” notion about homosexuals. It’s only your opinion. Homosexuality is simply unnatural. It starts in the mind.


... The first group perhaps we should be very sympathetic to and supportive of – they have no choice and cannot live a normal life in our terms.

How can one support and be sympathetic with such unnatural practice, especially that which is a complete and utter violation of God law on procreation, if I may ask? The example given in the Bible of these men shows that they were so wicked and guilty of the most scandalous and unnatural act that the Lord God did not and cannot tolerate, least of all have sympathy with. Therefore He had no choice but to destroy them, read for yourself the accounts in Genesis 19. Intolerance concerning this wickedness doesn’t mean that we have the right to kill homosexuals. We can't judge or condemn these men to death, but we have the responsibility to avoid them. Judging and condemning is God’s work. Let Him do the judging. Call me intolerant, narrow-minded, etc., it doesn't negate the fact that the Lord abhors this kind of practice.

Now, in so far as choice is concerned, each of us has a God-given freewill. We can choose who we want to be. We can choose to be murderers and of course receive the due penalty for our actions. We were not created as robots. Thus, these men who practice this abomination choose to be one.


I also believe that homosexuality can be taught,………….

You said it yourself. It is something that can be taught. Therefore anyone who has learned this sin can act upon it whether to accept it or reject it.


Now I will suggest that homosexuality is not in any way a sin.

I guess you could say that if you are above the Bible, which unfortunately you are not for the bible is the infallible word of God. Unless of course you don’t believe such thing and try to justify it your way rather than God’s way.


Those who quote the Bible to justify their intolerance should perhaps first try to educate themselves a little better.

Quoting the word of God is not to justify intolerance. God does not tolerate it then why should we as mere human beings who are subject to Him and His rule, unless we rebel? And regarding matters of education, there is only one who can educate you or me in the question of homosexuality, it is the word of God. Or perhaps I suppose you need to educate God as well for He does not put up with it, but rather destroy those who practiced it.


You can use the Bible to justify anything, and that is not what it’s for – it is all about humanity, love, understanding, tolerance and full of practical lessons about how to live a good life.

I agree concerning love and tolerance for each individual concerning their problems, but as far as that sin of homosexuality is concerned I don’t think a true a bible believing person could tolerate it. Please don’t forget that the Bible also corrects, rebukes and reproves. Thus: 2Timothy 3:16 – “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.” (KJV)


It is not meant to fuel your hatred or resentments.

Again, it is not at all hatred or resentment just because one does not agree with what the person does concerning this abnormality. Homosexuals need to turn around and repent from that action, or get punished by God. After all Sodom and Gomorrah were not annihilated because these cities were full of murderers or thieves but because of the inundations of homosexuals young and old. It’s history and something that one can’t deny, unless they don’t take the Bible seriously.


If you think homosexuality is a sin then avoid any contamination of yourself – don’t attend any fiestas where the Barangay ….………. Don’t do such things and your views are reflected in the way you live. I will support you and your right to your views – but be hypocritical then I’m afraid you will not be deserving of any respect at all from anyone.

I think there is a big misunderstanding here. It doesn’t mean that if a person happens to be against this abnormality that he/she should get out and live as a hermit somewhere in order not to see or even meet these people. One should be realistic enough that this kind of disease as I would call it is rampant and is everywhere and highly offensive. Avoidance is not hypocrisy.


Only less advanced and third-world countries brand homosexuality as a sin or a crime – the enlightened countries have abandoned the ignorance that once pervaded their peoples.

In other words, you are saying that God is ignorant and not enlightened. No my friend, these so called “enlightened” countries are nothing but ruled by wicked men in politics and has absolutely no fear for God. Besides, if homosexuality is not a sin, why is it that so many of those who practice it is bothered by their consciences? Why so many hide behind the closet if it is normal and an acceptable lifestyle? It’s easy to label someone as intolerant, however what’s wrong is wrong. Concerning the West, you’re basing your conclusion on the façade. You can’t say that these countries have abandoned this “ignorance”, because all you have to do is look and read that in the U.S. alone there are so many of those who are against homosexuality.


They will not tolerate Gay Marriage because their policy is ‘have as many children as possible as long as they’re Catholics’, which is in direct contradiction to what’s needed in the Philippines…….

Copulation between married man and woman is a natural thing to do and a God-given command. After all, God told Adam and Eve in Genesis 1:28 to multiply. Besides, how can the earth be filled with humankind if same sex copulation is normal? Can two gay men give birth to children unless they recruit or adopt? Or perhaps arrange a surrogate mother to carry a cell implanted into that woman from one of these men in order give birth to a child that they can call their “own”?


I think I’ve said enough. If I’ve annoyed anyone, please send back your disagreements in a sensible and properly thought out form. I believe in what I say, so please be constructive in trying to persuade me that I might have some things wrong. That’s not much to ask.

My dear friend, it is simple. If God says homosexuality is wrong, then it is wrong. After all He is the absolute ruler of the universe and not us. He said it, that settles it.


JPB

Hamadash
02-07-2008, 05:34 PM
What a nice explanation JustPassingby, i agree on you. WHAT IS WRONG IS WRONG no matter what....:)

agta
02-08-2008, 05:38 AM
I don't have A SOURCE - anyone who has knowledge of the Ancient Greek civilisation/history knows these things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_militaries_of_ancient_Greece

http://www.truthtree.com/pederasty.shtml

I hope these help
There may be some groups or individuals, but not
Greece as nation, encouraged homosexuality. The claim that Greece encouraged homosexuality simply could not stand honest study of history.

hedwig
02-08-2008, 04:37 PM
... good day to all..

talking about a gay priest.. on my point of view, okey lang siguro as long they have to observe proper conduct and proper decurom,, and they know where to put themselves and they are harmless. kumbaga . and di sila gumagawa ng mga gawaing immoralidad.... may mga pari nga diyan lalaki nga pero kabila kabila ang mga babae..and doing immorality...

and about homosexuality.. until now there is no cleared explaination why and how that particular type of gender was created.... oke sasabihin sa psychology na abnormality.. in what sense.. sa behaviour,,ang iba naman sasabihin nagtransform into a gay or lesbian. .. ang gulo.. anywaysss the real topic here is about gay priest..

agta
02-10-2008, 05:14 AM
And what really is a Gay or Homosexual Priest? Or when do we say that a priest is gay?

Bill Gregory
02-11-2008, 10:10 AM
........you and I differ on just about everything so we really have no common ground.

Agta, I suggest you talk to Historians who cover the Ancient World to get your 'honest' version of what really happened or just read some of the 20,000+ Google hits. If you want the 'horse's mouth stuff then read Thucydides and Herodotus.

agta
02-12-2008, 06:51 AM
........you and I differ on just about everything so we really have no common ground.

Agta, I suggest you talk to Historians who cover the Ancient World to get your 'honest' version of what really happened or just read some of the 20,000+ Google hits. If you want the 'horse's mouth stuff then read Thucydides and Herodotus.
Thank you for the suggestion. It would not take so much if you quote here your believable record of history together with its link instead of mentioning clouds that doesn't bring rain.

Bill Gregory
02-12-2008, 07:51 AM
Thank you for the suggestion. It would not take so much if you quote here your believable record of history together with its link instead of mentioning clouds that doesn't bring rain.

"
Even though the gender that one was erotically attracted to (at any specific time, given the assumption that persons will likely be attracted to persons of both sexes) was not important, other issues were salient, such as whether one exercised moderation. Status concerns were also of the highest importance. Given that only free men had full status, women and male slaves were not problematic sexual partners. Sex between freemen, however, was problematic for status. The central distinction in ancient Greek sexual relations was between taking an active or insertive role, versus a passive or penetrated one. The passive role was acceptable only for inferiors, such as women, slaves, or male youths who were not yet citizens. Hence the cultural ideal of a same-sex relationship was between an older man, probably in his 20's or 30's, known as the erastes, and a boy whose beard had not yet begun to grow, the eromenos or paidika. In this relationship there was courtship ritual, involving gifts (such as a rooster), and other norms. The erastes had to show that he had nobler interests in the boy, rather than a purely sexual concern. The boy was not to submit too easily, and if pursued by more than one man, was to show discretion and pick the more noble one. There is also evidence that penetration was often avoided by having the erastes face his beloved and place his penis between the thighs of the eromenos, which is known as intercrural sex. The relationship was to be temporary and should end upon the boy reaching adulthood (Dover, 1989). To continue in a submissive role even while one should be an equal citizen was considered troubling, although there certainly were many adult male same-sex relationships that were noted and not strongly stigmatized. While the passive role was thus seen as problematic, to be attracted to men was often taken as a sign of masculinity. Greek gods, such as Zeus, had stories of same-sex exploits attributed to them, as did other key figures in Greek myth and literature, such as Achilles and Hercules. Plato, in the Symposium, argues for an army to be comprised of same-sex lovers. Thebes did form such a regiment, the Sacred Band of Thebes, formed of 500 soldiers. They were renowned in the ancient world for their valor in battle.
Ancient Rome had many parallels in its understanding of same-sex attraction, and sexual issues more generally, to ancient Greece. This is especially true under the Republic. Yet under the Empire, Roman society slowly became more negative in its views towards sexuality, probably due to social and economic turmoil, even before Christianity became influential."

Jeff
02-12-2008, 12:47 PM
Even in the time of Moses homosexuality, or any sin against flesh were indulged by the israelites... lalong lalo na ang pag samba sa dios diosan.

agta
02-13-2008, 11:39 PM
"
While the passive role was thus seen as problematic, to be attracted to men was often taken as a sign of masculinity. Greek gods, such as Zeus, had stories of same-sex exploits attributed to them, as did other key figures in Greek myth and literature, such as Achilles and Hercules. Plato, in the Symposium, argues for an army to be comprised of same-sex lovers. Thebes did form such a regiment, the Sacred Band of Thebes, formed of 500 soldiers. They were renowned in the ancient world for their valor in battle.
Ancient Rome had many parallels in its understanding of same-sex attraction, and sexual issues more generally, to ancient Greece."
Here is what Socrates, and therefore also Plato, believed in Symposium (http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/p/plato/p71sy/symposium.html):

"This, my dear Socrates,’ said the stranger of Mantineia, ‘is that life above all others which man should live, in the contemplation of beauty absolute; a beauty which if you once beheld, you would see not to be after the measure of gold, and garments, and fair boys and youths, whose presence now entrances you; and you and many a one would be content to live seeing them only and conversing with them without meat or drink, if that were possible—you only want to look at them and to be with them. But what if man had eyes to see the true beauty—the divine beauty, I mean, pure and clear and unalloyed, not clogged with the pollutions of mortality and all the colours and vanities of human life—thither looking, and holding converse with the true beauty simple and divine? Remember how in that communion only, beholding beauty with the eye of the mind, he will be enabled to bring forth, not images of beauty, but realities (for he has hold not of an image but of a reality), and bringing forth and nourishing true virtue to become the friend of God and be immortal, if mortal man may. Would that be an ignoble life?’

Such, Phaedrus—and I speak not only to you, but to all of you—were the words of Diotima; and I am persuaded of their truth. And being persuaded of them, I try to persuade others, that in the attainment of this end human nature will not easily find a helper better than love: And therefore, also, I say that every man ought to honour him as I myself honour him, and walk in his ways, and exhort others to do the same, and praise the power and spirit of love according to the measure of my ability now and ever".

Jeff
02-14-2008, 08:04 AM
Imagine two boys setting holding each others hand as the waves smash the sand, promising they will never live each other. Is it normal or paranormal? hehehe

agta
02-17-2008, 03:00 AM
Imagine two boys setting holding each others hand as the waves smash the sand, promising they will never live each other. Is it normal or paranormal? hehehe

I guess it is not normal nor paranormal. It is simply abnormal! The rib that was taken out from the man was not made into another man but a woman.

Jeff
02-18-2008, 03:22 PM
Marriage is a centerpiece of our society showcasing the love between two individuals.

There are countries now are allowing same-sex marriage, much to the joy or chagrin of many.

Numerous reasons have been drummed out for allowing or disallowing the civil right of marriage to homosexuals.

One of the toughest is the consideration of gay couples with children.

Some claim that children need only a loving union in order to provide a healty family environment, while others clamor that homosexual unions will scar them for life.

However, the problem with the argument is the issue is not about kids at all; it’s about the morality of same-sex marriage.

I think that it would be fair to say that marriage is the basis for a family, so gay couples are at a disadvantage in our society if they are not allowed to marry.

This is not a true disadvantage given that research shows that children raised by homosexual families grow up just fine.

The same is applicable to single parent families with only a single parent.

So what is the problem?

Harassment might be a consideration, we all remember how cruel school kids can be. But, this misses the point.

As mentioned before, many studies have proven that kids with homosexual parents grow up just as normally as kids with heterosexual parents. However, there have also been multiple studies showing children growing up dysfunctional. So there are no real facts backing up either side. In the end the argument proclaiming irreparable damage to children’s development is irrelevant.

People could be just using the issue of kids and the foundation for a family as a banner for their political agenda. There’s no real justification on either side but it taps into the emotional core of the country.

To my mind the argument boils down to a single issue: is homosexuality moral? Society is changing, despite centuries of taboo; homosexuality is becoming a common reality. It’s inescapable.

The time has come for a gut-check; people need to find the answers within themselves in the end. It all comes down to the individual. Some want to place homosexual couples into a neat little category. Is it love? or, as some people call it, an abomination? (Keep in mind that, in the Bible, eating pork is also an abomination).

JustPassingBy
02-18-2008, 07:20 PM
To my mind the argument boils down to a single issue: is homosexuality moral? Society is changing, despite centuries of taboo; homosexuality is becoming a common reality. It’s inescapable.

Argument concerning this issue of homosexuality exists between those who rebel against God and those who follow God. Homosexuality is not “becoming a reality”. It is a persistent reality and before we were born, this sin has already been recorded in heaven. The Lord God has seen and have known this long before we existed on this planet. He himself said in Roman chapter 1 that homosexuality is unnatural. Read:

Romans 1:27 – “And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.” (KJV)


The time has come for a gut-check; people need to find the answers within themselves in the end. It all comes down to the individual. Some want to place homosexual couples into a neat little category. Is it love? or, as some people call it, an abomination? (Keep in mind that, in the Bible, eating pork is also an abomination).

Exactly, the time has come for individuals to decide for themselves whether or not homosexuality is wrong or acceptable. People who are prone to minimize the wrongness of homosexuality are none but those who are rebelling against the Lord. Thus the word of God is again timely. To all those who justify this sin, read. Lu 16:15 – “And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.” (KJV)


Time will also come that when we die, we’ll all have to give an account to God for all we’ve said and promoted. There is no escape for any of us.

Mt 12:36 – “But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.” (KJV)

Therefore, those who accept filth as clean which is rather oxymoronic, let them be. There is no need to argue over this thing. Let God be the judge for each and everyone of us. Thus: Re 22:11 - “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still."(KJV)

Conclusion: What is wrong is wrong, and for those who says good to evil, God said woe to them. Isa 5:20 – “Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”


JPB

agta
02-20-2008, 04:36 AM
Exactly, the time has come for individuals to decide for themselves whether or not homosexuality is wrong or acceptable. People who are prone to minimize the wrongness of homosexuality are none but those who are rebelling against the Lord. Thus the word of God is again timely. To all those who justify this sin, read.[/SIZE] [/FONT][/COLOR]Lu 16:15 – “And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.” (KJV)

Yes! Homosexuality is a rebellion against the will of God.

Bill Gregory
03-01-2008, 11:05 AM
...........which some of you might find interesting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3123115.stm

agta
03-02-2008, 07:45 AM
...........which some of you might find interesting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3123115.stm

Actually, the info given by the link is not interesting! As one reads through it, one would see that not the Catholic Church, but protestant churches are the ones starting to encourage homosexuality. It is not surprising at all because protestants are known for their "protests" against the teachings of the Church!

Jeff
03-03-2008, 12:15 PM
Actually, the info given by the link is not interesting! As one reads through it, one would see that not the Catholic Church, but protestant churches are the ones starting to encourage homosexuality. It is not surprising at all because protestants are known for their "protests" against the teachings of the Church!

Why is that there are so many known protestants, does it mean that they differ of what they are really protesting?

agta
03-03-2008, 12:24 PM
Why is that there are so many known protestants, does it mean that they differ of what they are really protesting?

They are each his own according to how each understand the bible. The Catholic Church on the other hand recognizes 1Tim 3:15 that says that the Church is the pillar and mainstay of the truth. Hence, all interpretations made by her members must not run contrary but bow to the Church interpretation or teaching.

Jeff
03-06-2008, 11:40 AM
They are each his own according to how each understand the bible. The Catholic Church on the other hand recognizes 1Tim 3:15 that says that the Church is the pillar and mainstay of the truth. Hence, all interpretations made by her members must not run contrary but bow to the Church interpretation or teaching.

The catholic doctrine focus into one vector, however protestant they differ in their attacks to catholics, protestant unification will be difficult because of divisiveness of beliefs. Wala rin pala...