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Jeff
05-06-2008, 03:36 PM
Payag ba kayo na ang mga bading na ngayon ang maging reyna sa sta.cruzan? Na si Sta Clara ay maging isang bading na lang?

viper
05-06-2008, 04:29 PM
Payag ba kayo na ang mga bading na ngayon ang maging reyna sa sta.cruzan? Na si Sta Clara ay maging isang bading na lang?

In a democracy such as ours, of course they can! Unless if the organizers themselves would disagree. Just because they are born like that does not exclude them from anything you and me could and be able to do. Remember, GOD made us all equals. HE does not DISCRIMINATE. So should we.

Wowie
05-06-2008, 05:13 PM
No I don't, and the majority think so.

Jeff
05-07-2008, 06:15 AM
In a democracy such as ours, of course they can! Unless if the organizers themselves would disagree. Just because they are born like that does not exclude them from anything you and me could and be able to do. Remember, GOD made us all equals. HE does not DISCRIMINATE. So should we.


Even in communist countries or socialist countries there are "badings" too.

viper
05-07-2008, 07:23 AM
No I don't, and the majority think so.

Is there a survey that you can quote on that??Otherwise it would be heresy..:D

Wowie
05-07-2008, 05:15 PM
A survey? It doesn't not need one, its a common belief that ladies should represent the Virgin Mary during santacrusan.

Do you favor gays? If yes, explain why?

viper
05-07-2008, 06:48 PM
A survey? It doesn't not need one, its a common belief that ladies should represent the Virgin Mary during santacrusan.

Do you favor gays? If yes, explain why?

Back your allegations with hard facts first. "Common belief" is another term for hearsay.
Have you heard about the Philippine Constitution under the Bill of Rights, Section 5?
Section 5. No law shall be made respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. The free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination or preference, shall forever be allowed. No religious test shall be required for the exercise of civil or political rights.

Now, THAT is hard fact.

Wowie
05-07-2008, 09:09 PM
I think you got me wrong, its not descrimination.
For me, it is something like this.

Its a common belief that guys should not wear skirt. Or else people will start to see him in a different way. Its uncommon to our eyes to see guys in miniskirt, and because of that some people laugh when they see one. (Thats a common fact)

The same goes for the santacrusan, its uncommon to Juan Dela Cruz to see guys who acts like a girl, talk like a girl, and dress-up like a girl. Because of that uncommonness people start to speak something, think something which are not related to the activity. Making the activity unholy and unsolemn. (That is also a common fact)

Thus to ensure the holyness and solemness of santacrusan, people should follow the common belief. Its not descrimination at all my friend, its just a guidelines that most people respect. (Common Fact)

By the way my friend, I have a 20/20 vision. I can see and read clearly with the forum default font-size. Making them big annoys most of the people here. (Common Fact)


Common facts - facts which everyone knows, sometimes even kids.

agta
05-08-2008, 06:33 AM
Back your allegations with hard facts first. "Common belief" is another term for hearsay.
Have you heard about the Philippine Constitution under the Bill of Rights, Section 5?
Section 5. No law shall be made respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. The free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination or preference, shall forever be allowed. No religious test shall be required for the exercise of civil or political rights.

Now, THAT is hard fact.

But reynareynahan sa santacruzan is a Catholic exercise, not of bading religion. In fact, there is no such a thing as bading religion. If badings want to exercise a religion of their own, then let them do so. But they have no right to pollute the religion of others with their own bading agenda.

viper
05-08-2008, 07:39 AM
I think you got me wrong, its not descrimination.
For me, it is something like this.

Its a common belief that guys should not wear skirt. Or else people will start to see him in a different way. Its uncommon to our eyes to see guys in miniskirt, and because of that some people laugh when they see one. (Thats a common fact)

The same goes for the santacrusan, its uncommon to Juan Dela Cruz to see guys who acts like a girl, talk like a girl, and dress-up like a girl. Because of that uncommonness people start to speak something, think something which are not related to the activity. Making the activity unholy and unsolemn. (That is also a common fact)

Thus to ensure the holyness and solemness of santacrusan, people should follow the common belief. Its not descrimination at all my friend, its just a guidelines that most people respect. (Common Fact)

By the way my friend, I have a 20/20 vision. I can see and read clearly with the forum default font-size. Making them big annoys most of the people here. (Common Fact)

I don't know about that message of yours but i think it smacks of gay rights discrimination.

And, one more thing, common belief is not equal to common fact.

Jeff
05-08-2008, 11:03 AM
I don't know about that message of yours but i think it smacks of gay rights discrimination.

And, one more thing, common belief is not equal to common fact.

I think you better answer the reply of Agta... In my opinion, there is no such thing as discrimination as you said, only there is a need to put everything in a right perspective.

cerebro
05-08-2008, 11:10 AM
that's your beliefe viper.
now here's mine:

a santacruzan is a religious procession commemorating St. Helena's (mother of constantine) mythical finding of the cross.

The Santacruzan is a procession that differs from most other religious processions in that it does not parade images of patron saints. Instead, biblical and historical characters are represented by the local people dressed in appropriate costumes.Nine days of prayer, (a novena) in honor of the Holy Cross preceds the Santacruzan.

and it also depicts the many titles of the virgin mary.

it's a solemn event honoring the virgin mary. na dapat ay i respeto.
gays are now accepted in the society. i don't descriminite them either. it's just that, this solemn event should be given due respect.

we all know that gays, even if woman in heart, they're still men. created for their sole purpose. na accepted nrin nman sila ng society. magbigay galang n lng din sila sa isang religious event. in honor of the virgin mary. hindi nman sila pnagbabawalang dumalo or sumali sa event. but not to the extent na sila mismo ang mag reyna reynahan.

PEACE!

scarface
05-08-2008, 11:30 AM
Back your allegations with hard facts first. "Common belief" is another term for hearsay.
Have you heard about the Philippine Constitution under the Bill of Rights, Section 5?
Section 5. No law shall be made respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. The free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination or preference, shall forever be allowed. No religious test shall be required for the exercise of civil or political rights.

Now, THAT is hard fact.


SANTACRUZAN is done to HONOR the VIRGIN MARY..
it is a SACRED and RELIGIOUS act and NEVER should be done for FUN..

do u think dat if gays would be allowed to join santacruzan people wouldnt make them a CLOWN?! wont make them FUN?!
where is our moral now?

im sorry but GOD's LAW nd PHILIPPINE CONSTITUTIONAL LAW aren't the same right?!

GOD created MAN and WOMAN..
only a MAN and a WOMAN..

we should respect what the church says when it comes to the HIGHEST LAW of all..

viper
05-08-2008, 12:30 PM
But reynareynahan sa santacruzan is a Catholic exercise, not of bading religion. In fact, there is no such a thing as bading religion. If badings want to exercise a religion of their own, then let them do so. But they have no right to pollute the religion of others with their own bading agenda.

Where on earth can we find "bading religion"?? Your statement in itself shows that you are against gays. Grow up guys, accept the fact that "they" are here to stay. Again i will say this: It is up to the organizers/laity/priests whom they choose to represent the religious figures in santacruzan.
The fact that it has already been done attests to the viability of the idea to the organizers/laity/priests. That is if the church hierarchy won't put a stop to that "radical idea", if you may want to call it that.

viper
05-08-2008, 12:33 PM
I think you better answer the reply of Agta... In my opinion, there is no such thing as discrimination as you said, only there is a need to put everything in a right perspective.

Hmmm..Can you elaborate on that Jeff? Especially the Right Perspective part?

viper
05-08-2008, 12:41 PM
SANTACRUZAN is done to HONOR the VIRGIN MARY..
it is a SACRED and RELIGIOUS act and NEVER should be done for FUN..

do u think dat if gays would be allowed to join santacruzan people wouldnt make them a CLOWN?! wont make them FUN?!
where is our moral now?

im sorry but GOD's LAW nd PHILIPPINE CONSTITUTIONAL LAW aren't the same right?!

GOD created MAN and WOMAN..
only a MAN and a WOMAN..

we should respect what the church says when it comes to the HIGHEST LAW of all..

Who said it should be done for fun?? Where would you find a religious event done that way??
What if the gays portraying them ARE serious, who then has no morals/ethics, the gays or the people laughing at them?

myrna cesora oblevias
05-08-2008, 02:36 PM
Tinatawag na Flores De Mayo which means Flower is for girls not for the third sex. It is a blessed sacrament for mama mary kaugalian na natin mga pilipino na ganapin tuwing mayo. Para sa mga bata na maghandog ng bulaklak kay mama mary tuwing mayo. Kaya hindi ako pabor na bakla ang pumapel sa ganitong okasyon. Salamat at sana igalang natin ang Blessed Virgin Mary.

Jeff
05-08-2008, 02:40 PM
Hmmm..Can you elaborate on that Jeff? Especially the Right Perspective part?

There is always a proper perspective for everything. In the case of Sta. Cruzan, it's been a tradition that reynas there are true ladies, they are been escorted with males ever since. It's been a tradition that we followed as a devoted catholics. So if that tradition calls for women to be reynas we should preserve that. This is not about gay contest or other organizers may call it. Is there a contest you have seen that gay contestant is a true woman? of course there is none because the perspective calls for a gay only to participate. Another thing, for Mr. Philippines contest, is there a gay who joined the contest wearing ladies Tback or bikini? of course none, because the perspective calls for only muscle men to join.

Jeff
05-08-2008, 02:45 PM
SANTACRUZAN is done to HONOR the VIRGIN MARY..
it is a SACRED and RELIGIOUS act and NEVER should be done for FUN..

do u think dat if gays would be allowed to join santacruzan people wouldnt make them a CLOWN?! wont make them FUN?!
where is our moral now?

im sorry but GOD's LAW nd PHILIPPINE CONSTITUTIONAL LAW aren't the same right?!

GOD created MAN and WOMAN..
only a MAN and a WOMAN..

we should respect what the church says when it comes to the HIGHEST LAW of all..

Gays will be only bullyed or "makantyawan lang" by the masses because they are at the wrong timing of joining as reynas on the said event.

jalmz
05-08-2008, 03:54 PM
In a democracy such as ours, of course they can! Unless if the organizers themselves would disagree. Just because they are born like that does not exclude them from anything you and me could and be able to do. Remember, GOD made us all equals. HE does not DISCRIMINATE. So should we.

with all due respect, we have to respect our religion.

agta
05-08-2008, 07:43 PM
Where on earth can we find "bading religion"?? Your statement in itself shows that you are against gays. Grow up guys, accept the fact that "they" are here to stay. Again i will say this: It is up to the organizers/laity/priests whom they choose to represent the religious figures in santacruzan.
The fact that it has already been done attests to the viability of the idea to the organizers/laity/priests. That is if the church hierarchy won't put a stop to that "radical idea", if you may want to call it that.
We cannot find on earth a bading religion? If so, then there is no freedom of exercise of religion for the bading to speak of! For how shall they exercise something which they do not have? Therefore we can say that your act of quoting the Philippine Constitution in this thread is out of place on the part of the badings.

We do not capitalize on an error of some organizers to justify an unjustifiable act.

viper
05-09-2008, 07:32 AM
We cannot find on earth a bading religion? If so, then there is no freedom of exercise of religion for the bading to speak of! For how shall they exercise something which they do not have? Therefore we can say that your act of quoting the Philippine Constitution in this thread is out of place on the part of the badings.

We do not capitalize on an error of some organizers to justify an unjustifiable act.

FYI The Constitution applies to EVERYONE, you, me, boys, girls, and your so called "bading/s". So how can I be out of place in quoting the Philippine Constitution?

agta
05-09-2008, 11:39 PM
FYI The Constitution applies to EVERYONE, you, me, boys, girls, and your so called "bading/s". So how can I be out of place in quoting the Philippine Constitution?
Because you said that there is no bading religion here on earth! And I agree to that.
If the people they called "bading" do not have a religion of their own, what free exercise of their religion are you talking about such that you needed to quote the Philippine Constitution for them?
I submit that there is none who would be pleased to be called "bading". Calling them "bading" is passing judgment upon our equally free and dignified neighbor. Why not simply call them "boys", "girls", "males", or "females"?

scarface
05-10-2008, 10:45 AM
Who said it should be done for fun?? Where would you find a religious event done that way??
What if the gays portraying them ARE serious, who then has no morals/ethics, the gays or the people laughing at them?


im not saying it is done for fun!
mali yata ung pagkabasa muh..
what i mean is, if they will join such SACRED event, people will just mock them..
aminin mu man o hindi ang mga bading ay ginagawa lang katatawanan ng mga tao.. ginagawa silang CLOWN dahil un na ung pagtingin ng mga karamihan sa kanila..

oo TAO rin sila na dapat i.respeto BUT THEY MUST RESPECT THEIR SELVES FIRST TO GAIN RESPECT FROM OTHERS!

Jeff
05-12-2008, 10:58 AM
im not saying it is done for fun!
mali yata ung pagkabasa muh..
what i mean is, if they will join such SACRED event, people will just mock them..
aminin mu man o hindi ang mga bading ay ginagawa lang katatawanan ng mga tao.. ginagawa silang CLOWN dahil un na ung pagtingin ng mga karamihan sa kanila..

oo TAO rin sila na dapat i.respeto BUT THEY MUST RESPECT THEIR SELVES FIRST TO GAIN RESPECT FROM OTHERS!

Ang lahat ng bagay ay may tamang oras o lugar, hindi porke't liberal tayo pero may mga pagkakataon na dapat nababagay sa wasto at tyempong panahon. Like for example ang "water melon" di naman ito namumunga tuwing tag ulan, sa tag init lang ito...ganun sa mga occcations gaya ng Sta. Cruzan, panahon ng pag alay ng ating debosyon, so nararapat na sundin ang kaugalian na babae talaga ang Reyna hindi sereyna.

agta
05-12-2008, 10:27 PM
Think of it. Ang isang lalaki dadamitan na isang reyna! Isn't it a mockery to the real queen? It is an insult to the queen that he wants to represent. And an insult too to the sensibility of the public.

Jeff
05-13-2008, 06:37 AM
Even Ricky Reyes is not in favor for badings to join Reyna Elena, Sta. Cruzan or anything that represents celebration of our devotions to Mama Mary. Gay contest yes they can no doubts.

viper
05-13-2008, 07:22 AM
Think of it. Ang isang lalaki dadamitan na isang reyna! Isn't it a mockery to the real queen? It is an insult to the queen that he wants to represent. And an insult too to the sensibility of the public.
Point well taken. But for the sake of argument, i have a situation for you: what if the one who'll portray is a transsexual? Meaning a person who's had a sexual change or a person who's taking medicines to induce his feminine side. And the catch is you don't know that he is such, what would you feel if you find out

charlee2905
05-13-2008, 07:24 AM
we live on this earth not perfect,we will not judge our fellowmen!!! there is a saying"we are not equal to eyes of people but we are equal in the eyes of GOD"

jujebage
05-13-2008, 10:37 AM
viper are you a member of third sex? wala lang.::):)

Jeff
05-13-2008, 01:59 PM
According to the Bible:

Deuteronomy 22:5

A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman's garment; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God.
and also

Deuteronomy 23.1

He whose testicles are crushed or whose male member is cut off shall not enter the assembly of the LORD.

Sa Tagalog:

Deu 22:5 Ang babae ay huwag mananamit ng nauukol sa lalake, ni ang lalake ay magsusuot ng pananamit ng babae; sapagka't sinomang gumagawa ng mga bagay na ito ay karumaldumal sa Panginoon mong Dios.

Deu 23:1 Ang nasaktan sa mga iklog, o ang may lihim na sangkap na putol ng katawan ay hindi makapapasok sa kapisanan ng Panginoon.

viper
05-13-2008, 02:45 PM
According to the Bible:

Deuteronomy 22:5

A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman's garment; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God.
and also

Deuteronomy 23.1

He whose testicles are crushed or whose male member is cut off shall not enter the assembly of the LORD.

Sa Tagalog:

Deu 22:5 Ang babae ay huwag mananamit ng nauukol sa lalake, ni ang lalake ay magsusuot ng pananamit ng babae; sapagka't sinomang gumagawa ng mga bagay na ito ay karumaldumal sa Panginoon mong Dios.

Deu 23:1 Ang nasaktan sa mga iklog, o ang may lihim na sangkap na putol ng katawan ay hindi makapapasok sa kapisanan ng Panginoon.
Deu 22:5: Tell me truthfully jeff what do you see in this passage? Do you see this as a true reflection of the times? I don't think so. It's been what, 75 years since women have been dressing like men! Do you heartily feel that it would apply to us now??
Deu 23:1: Again another obsolete passage that in itself, does not justify the present situation

agta
05-13-2008, 06:24 PM
Point well taken. But for the sake of argument, i have a situation for you: what if the one who'll portray is a transsexual? Meaning a person who's had a sexual change or a person who's taking medicines to induce his feminine side. And the catch is you don't know that he is such, what would you feel if you find out
Most probably he was a stranger of my barangay, hence his real identity was not known. He have fooled the people in the barangay, making them believe that he is a woman. A big fraud, a deceiver, that is what he is. And to tell you, such kind would not make us all happy.

scarface
05-13-2008, 08:03 PM
Most probably he was a stranger of my barangay, hence his real identity was not known. He have fooled the people in the barangay, making them believe that he is a woman. A big fraud, a deceiver, that is what he is. And to tell you, such kind would not make us all happy.

iba parin ang tindig ng mga BABAE at sa mga NAGPAPAKA BABAE lng..
if someones staring at u in a crowd u'll notice nga how much more sa isang event na nasa mga kasali ang mga mata ng mga ta0..

agta
05-14-2008, 02:43 AM
Deu 22:5: Tell me truthfully jeff what do you see in this passage? Do you see this as a true reflection of the times? I don't think so. It's been what, 75 years since women have been dressing like men! Do you heartily feel that it would apply to us now??
Deu 23:1: Again another obsolete passage that in itself, does not justify the present situation
We are talking here of a specific situation, that of "reynareynahan sa santa cruzan". In our time, in general, yes, there are clothes that are called "unisex". They can be worn either by the male or the female. These clothes are not uniquely for the women only, and usually they do not tend to confuse the man from the woman.

But still in our time, there are clothes that are uniquely designed for women only. More so, attires for a queen is for a woman only, and never for a man. This fact can never become obsolete. When a man wears the attire of a queen, he simply manifests some kind of abnormality.

Therefore, those passages still have relevance to our time.

Jeff
05-15-2008, 11:33 AM
Deu 22:5: Tell me truthfully jeff what do you see in this passage? Do you see this as a true reflection of the times? I don't think so. It's been what, 75 years since women have been dressing like men! Do you heartily feel that it would apply to us now??
Deu 23:1: Again another obsolete passage that in itself, does not justify the present situation


Are you questioning those of what is written in the bible? Who are we questioning what GOD wanted us to follow? Yan ang nakasulat and that is a law, and law is to be follow, kung hindi tayo maniniwala sa nakasulat, therefore we are against GOD, if we believed and follow it we are with GOD, self explanatory kung baga diba. No other reasons or no matter how intelligent our reasoning as long as it’s against GOD’s well then our capacity to reason is unacceptable to the wisdom of GOD.


Ti 6:11 Datapuwa't ikaw, Oh tao, ng Dios, tumakas ka sa mga bagay na ito, at sumunod ka sa katuwiran, sa kabanalan, sa pananampalataya, sa pagibig, sa pagtitiis, sa kaamuan.
1Ti 6:12 Makipagbaka ka ng mabuting pakikipagbaka ng pananampalataya, manangan ka sa buhay na walang hanggan, na dito'y tinawag ka, at ipinahayag mo ang mabuting pagpapahayag sa harapan ng maraming mga saksi.
1Ti 6:13 Ipinagbibilin ko sa iyo sa paningin ng Dios na bumubuhay sa lahat ng mga bagay, at ni Cristo Jesus, na sa harapan ni Poncio Pilato ay sumaksi ng mabuting pagpapahayag.
1Ti 6:14 Na tuparin mo ang utos, na walang dungis, walang kapintasan hanggang sa pagpapakita ng ating Panginoong Jesucristo.
1Ti 6:15 Na sa kaniyang kapanahunan ay ipahahayag siya, na mapalad at tanging Makapangyarihan Hari ng mga hari, at Panginoon ng mga panginoon.
1Ti 6:16 Na siya lamang ang walang kamatayan, na nananahan sa liwanag na di malapitan; na di nakita ng sinomang tao, o makikita man: sumakaniya nawa ang kapurihan at paghaharing walang hanggan. Siya nawa

viper
05-15-2008, 12:19 PM
Are you questioning those of what is written in the bible? Who are we questioning what GOD wanted us to follow? Yan ang nakasulat and that is a law, and law is to be follow, kung hindi tayo maniniwala sa nakasulat, therefore we are against GOD, if we believed and follow it we are with GOD, self explanatory kung baga diba. No other reasons or no matter how intelligent our reasoning as long as it’s against GOD’s well then our capacity to reason is unacceptable to the wisdom of GOD.
Some but not all. Only those that are outmoded/obsolete/cannot be adapted to modern situations. And those two you quoted is an example of it.
A good example would be Lance Armstrong, the cycling champ from the USA, who had 1 of his testicles removed because of disease. Do you mean to say that just because you got struck by a disease "down there" and you had the offending "thing" removed, you'll be disqualified from entering the LORD's Assembly???:eek::eek::eek:

echo101
05-15-2008, 12:33 PM
Deu 22:5: Tell me truthfully jeff what do you see in this passage? Do you see this as a true reflection of the times? I don't think so. It's been what, 75 years since women have been dressing like men! Do you heartily feel that it would apply to us now??
Deu 23:1: Again another obsolete passage that in itself, does not justify the present situation

Do you not know that the word of God is everlasting? The whole world will fade away but His words will still remain standing. Ndi kayang saklawan ng oras at panahon ang mga salita nya. ANG TAMA, KAHIT WALANG NI ISA MANG GUMAGWA NUN, MANANATILING TAMA PARIN... ANG MALI KAHIT GAWIN PA NG LAHAT NG TAO, NDI UN NAGIGING TAMA.. STILL MALI PRIN UN.. SA DIYOS WLANG USO-USO! KUNG ANO ANG SINABI NYA, KHIT NA NDI GINAGAWA SA KASALUKUYAN, ANG SALITA NYA PRIN MASUSUNOD SA HULI..

Proverbs 19:21 "ANG ISANG TAO'Y MARAMING INIISIP, MARAMING BINABALAK, NGUNIT ANG KALOOBAN DIN NI YAHWEH ANG MANANAIG SA WAKAS."

Jeff
05-15-2008, 02:50 PM
Some but not all. Only those that are outmoded/obsolete/cannot be adapted to modern situations. And those two you quoted is an example of it.
A good example would be Lance Armstrong, the cycling champ from the USA, who had 1 of his testicles removed because of disease. Do you mean to say that just because you got struck by a disease "down there" and you had the offending "thing" removed, you'll be disqualified from entering the LORD's Assembly???:eek::eek::eek:

It's a case to case situation, if you intend to remove your testicles just to replace it with a woman thing because of your own personal satisfaction and obsessions, then you may ask yourself through your conscience about God's law with that context. You're responsible of what you are doing.

Now, as what you said that there are laws of GOD which are obsolete, I considered that as mockery to GOD. Why as a human we intend to become so believe of ourselves of saying those are obsolete? Is it because we just want to justify our deeds our corruptible mind? That we are right in our senses? That we are better than him because we know those are obsolete? There is no so such thing as obsolete in the words of GOD, my goodness. There is no hightech and obsolete in Laws of GOD.

Jeff
05-15-2008, 02:58 PM
Do you not know that the word of God is everlasting? The whole world will fade away but His words will still remain standing. Ndi kayang saklawan ng oras at panahon ang mga salita nya. ANG TAMA, KAHIT WALANG NI ISA MANG GUMAGWA NUN, MANANATILING TAMA PARIN... ANG MALI KAHIT GAWIN PA NG LAHAT NG TAO, NDI UN NAGIGING TAMA.. STILL MALI PRIN UN.. SA DIYOS WLANG USO-USO! KUNG ANO ANG SINABI NYA, KHIT NA NDI GINAGAWA SA KASALUKUYAN, ANG SALITA NYA PRIN MASUSUNOD SA HULI..

Proverbs 19:21 "ANG ISANG TAO'Y MARAMING INIISIP, MARAMING BINABALAK, NGUNIT ANG KALOOBAN DIN NI YAHWEH ANG MANANAIG SA WAKAS."

Tama ka dyan... walang kumukupas, walang brandnew sa mga utos ng Diyos. Kahit ano pa gawin nating justification for our sins, hindi yan uubra sa Diyos, dahil naka sulat.

Rom 7:8 Datapuwa't ang kasalanan, nang makasumpong ng pagkakataon, ay gumawa sa akin sa pamamagitan ng utos ng sarisaring kasakiman: sapagka't kung walang kautusan ang kasalanan ay patay.
Rom 7:9 At nang isang panahon ako'y nabubuhay na walang kautusan: datapuwa't nang dumating ang utos, ay muling nabuhay ang kasalanan at ako'y namatay.
Rom 7:10 At ang utos na sa ikabubuhay, ay nasumpungan kong ito'y sa ikamamatay.
Rom 7:11 Sapagka't ang kasalanan, nang makasumpong ng pagkakataon, ay dinaya ako sa pamamagitan ng utos, at sa pamamagitan nito ay pinatay ako.
Rom 7:12 Kaya nga ang kautusan ay banal, at ang utos ay banal, at matuwid, at mabuti.

Kaya kung utos ng Diyos na wag kang mag damit babae, sundin mo ba ito o hindi. Kung hindi meaning rebelde o kalaban ka ayaw mo sumonod eh, kahit ano pa idahilan mo lumabag ka sa utos (plain and simple). Kahit dun kapa pumunta sa supreme court para mag appeal, sentesyado kana hehehe. Batas ng Diyos di nababale yan pre walang abugado sa langit walang fiscal. batas ng tao baka mabali pa kasi may court of appeals pa eh agayyy.

viper
05-15-2008, 03:48 PM
Do you not know that the word of God is everlasting? The whole world will fade away but His words will still remain standing. Ndi kayang saklawan ng oras at panahon ang mga salita nya. ANG TAMA, KAHIT WALANG NI ISA MANG GUMAGWA NUN, MANANATILING TAMA PARIN... ANG MALI KAHIT GAWIN PA NG LAHAT NG TAO, NDI UN NAGIGING TAMA.. STILL MALI PRIN UN.. SA DIYOS WLANG USO-USO! KUNG ANO ANG SINABI NYA, KHIT NA NDI GINAGAWA SA KASALUKUYAN, ANG SALITA NYA PRIN MASUSUNOD SA HULI..

Proverbs 19:21 "ANG ISANG TAO'Y MARAMING INIISIP, MARAMING BINABALAK, NGUNIT ANG KALOOBAN DIN NI YAHWEH ANG MANANAIG SA WAKAS."

Can you PROVE that it is GOD'S WORD?The mere fact that the bible has been translated sooooooooo many times, by sooooooo many men makes it prone to errors. Give me concrete evidence please. I myself read the bible, and i find some of its edicts obsolete.

viper
05-15-2008, 04:00 PM
[quote=Jeff;5980]Are you questioning those of what is written in the bible? Who are we questioning what GOD wanted us to follow? Yan ang nakasulat and that is a law, and law is to be follow, kung hindi tayo maniniwala sa nakasulat, therefore we are against GOD, if we believed and follow it we are with GOD, self explanatory kung baga diba. No other reasons or no matter how intelligent our reasoning as long as it’s against GOD’s well then our capacity to reason is unacceptable to the wisdom of GOD.

1. Yes i am questioning some of it jeff, not all. Only those that pertains to olden times ought to be enforced in the olden times.
2. I am not questioning those that we should rightly follow jeff, but those that have to be revised to adapt to modern times.
I am not a heretic mind you. I too am a Christian.

echo101
05-15-2008, 05:51 PM
Can you PROVE that it is GOD'S WORD?The mere fact that the bible has been translated sooooooooo many times, by sooooooo many men makes it prone to errors. Give me concrete evidence please. I myself read the bible, and i find some of its edicts obsolete.

I know what you mean, some of the commandments that was given before in the old testament are not applicable nowadays.. for example, the burnt offerings for the forgiveness of sins.. ndi na applicable un syempre ngaun.. and there are other stuffs also.. nung old testament kc parang you have to do this to gain that, do this and gain that.... laging nauuna ang work, as in physical work, to gain something.. Physical to Spiritual.. Those are the kinds of commandments that i think are not applicable today.. For nowadays it's more on faith, it's more on from Spiritual manifesting to the Physical realm.. Of cousre His Laws today still requires work, but not work as in physical labor like in OT days wherein you have to kill an animal and burn it, or take a bath and wash your clothes in order to be clean in the sight of God..

The two great commandments that God gave is found in Mark 12:29-31
29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. 31 The second is this: "Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."

If you will notice, the commandments given there do not require physical labor. It still requires work but mainly from the inside manifesting outwardly.. The labor is in the emotional and mental state like renewing the mind to be inclined with the mind of Christ.

If you are looking for proof, the actual and original copies of the manuscripts in hebrew and greek still available. And if you have the will and the time you can examine every old words and look for its meaning and then match it to the actual bible that we have today..

or maybe this article can help you..
http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/bible-manuscripts.htm

Please, get rid of that doubt of yours about the bible not being the word of God...

2 peter 1:20-21
20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

2 timothy 3:15-16 (NIV)
"15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness"

agta
05-17-2008, 02:21 PM
2. I am not questioning those that we should rightly follow jeff, but those that have to be revised to adapt to modern times.
I am not a heretic mind you. I too am a Christian.

It is nice to know that you are a Christian. It surely means that you believe in Christ, or so you wish to believe in Christ. What did Christ say? He said, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Math 18:18-19)
And in relation to the church , the apostle Paul said that the Church is the pillar and mainstay of the truth. (1Tim 3:15)
Now, you want some parts of the bible revised in order that it would suit the times? You seem to make yourself more a pillar and mainstay of the truth than the Church. Think of it.

viper
05-19-2008, 07:13 AM
Now, you want some parts of the bible revised in order that it would suit the times? You seem to make yourself more a pillar and mainstay of the truth than the Church. Think of it.
The church has never been a perfect church, so yes, i would love to be a "pillar and mainstay of the truth" than be espousing the rhetoric of the church. Or you have interchanged church and truth in your second to the last sentence??:eek::D

Jeff
05-19-2008, 11:47 AM
[quote=Jeff;5980]Are you questioning those of what is written in the bible? Who are we questioning what GOD wanted us to follow? Yan ang nakasulat and that is a law, and law is to be follow, kung hindi tayo maniniwala sa nakasulat, therefore we are against GOD, if we believed and follow it we are with GOD, self explanatory kung baga diba. No other reasons or no matter how intelligent our reasoning as long as it’s against GOD’s well then our capacity to reason is unacceptable to the wisdom of GOD.

1. Yes i am questioning some of it jeff, not all. Only those that pertains to olden times ought to be enforced in the olden times.
2. I am not questioning those that we should rightly follow jeff, but those that have to be revised to adapt to modern times.
I am not a heretic mind you. I too am a Christian.

In our own view of what is being said in the bible, granting it was translated from tongue to tongue, are there any phrases/sentences that tends to violate your understanding? Are there bad teachings resulted due to series of translations? If none, then why its hard for us to accept the words of GOD as a whole?

agta
05-20-2008, 03:25 AM
The church has never been a perfect church, so yes, i would love to be a "pillar and mainstay of the truth" than be espousing the rhetoric of the church. Or you have interchanged church and truth in your second to the last sentence??:eek::D
I don't think you are talking of the Church that Christ built. For the Church that Christ built is holy and perfect just as the head of the Church, Jesus Christ, is Himself perfect. There are individuals who confuse the Church with a priest. When they see a priest accused of scandalous act, they think it is the Church who is doing the scandal. That is a big mistake in logic.

So, you really would wish to be higher than the Church in her authority being the pillar and mainstay of the truth. You are as you want yourself to be. But when you willfully imagine yourself to be greater than the Church, then please do not pretend anymore to be a Christian. The two just cannot go together. "Obey your superiors and be subject to them, for they keep watch as having to render an account of your souls." (Hebrews 13:17)

Jeff
05-20-2008, 06:20 AM
Jesus Christ built the church, it's not the Basilica that you see, its not a thing but belevers of truth and that can be read in the Bible. What God made is perfect and I mean everything, its sad to know its us who wasted it.