PDA

View Full Version : If God created the universe, then who created God?



Jeff
08-06-2008, 01:12 PM
Answering the Critics:

A number of sceptics ask this question. But God by definition is the uncreated creator of the universe, so the question ‘Who created God?’ is illogical, just like ‘To whom is the bachelor married?’

So a more sophisticated questioner might ask: ‘If the universe needs a cause, then why doesn’t God need a cause? And if God doesn’t need a cause, why should the universe need a cause?’ In reply, Christians should use the following reasoning:

Everything which has a beginning has a cause.
The universe has a beginning.
Therefore the universe has a cause.

It’s important to stress the words in bold type. The universe requires a cause because it had a beginning. God, unlike the universe, had no beginning, so doesn’t need a cause. In addition, Einstein’s general relativity, which has much experimental support, shows that time is linked to matter and space. So time itself would have begun along with matter and space. Since God, by definition, is the creator of the whole universe, he is the creator of time. Therefore He is not limited by the time dimension He created, so has no beginning in time—God is ‘the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity’
(Isa 57:15) "Sapagka't ganito ang sabi ng Mataas at Matayog na tumatahan sa walang hanggan, na ang pangalan ay Banal; Ako'y tumatahan sa mataas at banal na dako na kasama rin niya na may pagsisisi at pagpapakumbabang-loob, upang bumuhay ng loob ng nagpapakumbaba, at upang bumuhay ng puso ng nagsisisi." Therefore He doesn’t have a cause.

In contrast, there is good evidence that the universe had a beginning. This can be shown from the Laws of Thermodynamics, the most fundamental laws of the physical sciences.

1st Law: The total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant.
2nd Law: The amount of energy available for work is running out, or entropy is increasing to a maximum.
If the total amount of mass-energy is limited, and the amount of usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever, otherwise it would already have exhausted all usable energy—the ‘heat death’ of the universe. For example, all radioactive atoms would have decayed, every part of the universe would be the same temperature, and no further work would be possible. So the obvious corollary is that the universe began a finite time ago with a lot of usable energy, and is now running down.

Now, what if the questioner accepts that the universe had a beginning, but not that it needs a cause? But it is self-evident that things that begin have a cause—no-one really denies it in his heart. All science and history would collapse if this law of cause and effect were denied. So would all law enforcement, if the police didn’t think they needed to find a cause for a stabbed body or a burgled house. Also, the universe cannot be self-caused—nothing can create itself, because that would mean that it existed before it came into existence, which is a logical absurdity.

shokosugi
10-05-2008, 03:57 AM
God is the beginning and the end.

acpatagnan
10-07-2008, 12:44 AM
Matter cannot be created and cannot be destroyed. It only changes its form. Matter is eternal. No beginning and no end. Matter is entity. Entity is the cause and no other.

The universe is made up of matter. Since matter cannot be created nor destroyed the question cannnot be answered. The question, "Who created God, that created the universe according to religion," presupposed an identity of God. It presupposed a question What is God? And religion has no definition of God. When you say that God is defined as uncreated creator meaning God is matter. Since matter cannot be created. Man is the only living matter that can create or transform a thing out of something. We can say man is God. Man is the only being that can be observed and identify.

acpatagnan
10-07-2008, 02:41 PM
The starting point is existence. In acquiring knowledge, you begin from something that exist. You cannot start from nothing. For knowledge is knowledge about something. If you go beyond existence, you end up nothing, zero, void. It is an asking of what comes before existence. The asking of who created the universe is going beyond existence. It is a kind of thinking by jumping out from something to nothing. It is like wanting to know what comes before something exist. That is impossible. Nothing is nothing. There is none to know and discover.

Creation is a process of putting something into existence by combining two or more existing elements. Plastic is a combination of different chemical elements. The combining of male sperm to female egg produces cell. Further combination of elements inside the womb grows an embryo. Thus, nothing can be created out of nothing. A thing cannot come from nothing. A process is a process of something. There is no processing if nothing exist . There is no creation of something out void, zero, nothing.

In the that context, the starting point is matter. Matter was not created and cannot be destroyed out of existence. It only changes its form, but remain in existence. Matter is eternal; no beginning and no end. The universe is made up of matter and the result of the changing forms of matter. Man is a living matter.

Now, the question, “Who created God that created the universe?”, is based on the religious premise: the universe is the product of creation. That premise start from nothing to something. It is an idea of something coming out nothing. An idea that matter is not eternal but can be destroyed out of existence. Furthermore, the question presupposed an answer to another question, What is God? Religion has no answer. If God is defined as uncreated creator, then it means the ACCEPTANCE OF STARTING POINT. The starting point of no creation, the existence of matter; since matter was not created. Therefore, the question, who created God, is a need of a starting point- of a beginning.

What then is the starting point? Non-existence or existence.

With regards to the Law of causality, the cause is the entity (matter) of the effect (an event, a motion, movement). Changes, evolution, motion are effects of matter. It is the nature of the entity (matter) as the cause of its action, motion. Matter has no other cause but itself.




According to the thermodynamic law: energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only change from one form to another or transferred from one body to another. But the total amount of energy remains constant (the same)-Law of conservation of energy. Entropy is a measure of heat transferring from one form to another or from one body to another. This does not suggest anything at all about God, nor about the (beginning) coming into existence about matter-energy. It is opposite to the religious idea of creation, the cause of creation (Law of causality)

Jeff
10-09-2008, 03:36 PM
There is only one ultimate supreme source of everything and that is our GOD. If we keep searching of who created GOD then there will be no ending. The source of creation is far and not related to evolution. So again, lets stop until here and maybe good for us to discuss other matters which has the potential our mind can reach.