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acpatagnan
09-21-2007, 11:37 AM
What is truth? What is true?

When you look at the computer, have you not ask if what you are looking is true or just an illusion. What validates the truth? How do you arrived at the truth. Is truth an illusive? Are knowledge of anything is true?

Those are the question that man confront and necessitates an answer. An answer is necessary in order to live and enjoy each individual life.

Somebody will answer: oh the bible will tell you the truth? How can we be sure that the bible is telling the truth? How can we know the true or truth?

agta
09-23-2007, 02:59 PM
What is truth? What is true?

When you look at the computer, have you not ask if what you are looking is true or just an illusion. What validates the truth? How do you arrived at the truth. Is truth an illusive? Are knowledge of anything is true?

Those are the question that man confront and necessitates an answer. An answer is necessary in order to live and enjoy each individual life.

Somebody will answer: oh the bible will tell you the truth? How can we be sure that the bible is telling the truth? How can we know the true or truth?
Anything that is in accordance with reality and correct reason is actually truth. And for a Christian, Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the life. What validates truth? Reality and correct reasoning process.

Whether or not you agree to my concept of truth, it would not matter to me. The important thing is happiness in the things that we value most in life, that they give us that happiness without any shadow of doubt.

Wowie
09-23-2007, 04:05 PM
Truth, a Primary Principle, means conformity with fact, agreement with reality, accuracy, correctness, verity of a statement or thought, genuineness, reality, conduct following the divine standard, spirituality of life and behavior, that which is true, real, or actual in a general or abstract sense, reality, specifically in religious use, spiritual reality as the subject of revelation or object of faith.


source: http://miriams-well.org/Glossary/

In your own opinion acpatagnan, what is truth? :)

acpatagnan
09-24-2007, 03:34 AM
It seems to me that you guys quote the dictionary meaning of truth. Yes, truth, as both Wowie and Agta stated (based on dictionary) that truth is conformity with facts, agreement with reality. I agree with that. (The recognition of reality, facts) In other words, truth are reality, facts. Now, a question will follow: HOW DO YOU ARRIVED AT THE TRUTH, FACTS? HOW DO YOU BECOME AWARE, GRASP, KNOW REALITY, FACTS AND ULITIMATELY THE TRUTH? This is now in philosophical technical term: epistemology-the branch of the philosophy that deals with the theory of knowledge-"how do we know what we know?"

To answer that question we have to know first our views of the nature of man. Why? Because it will reflect our answer to that question. Man by nature has consciousness (his attributes). Man is biologically similar to animals. Living organism (plants and animals) are all have consciousness but in varied forms. They all have life-meaning conscious. Consciousness can mean also life. Man is the highest form of consciousness-reason. Lower animals have consciusness but of lower level and plants are of much lower level. In short, man's consciousness (in highest form) is his mind, his reason. This is his tools of knowing, of grasping reality, of facts. Now that tool can be use or not. Man can choose to used it or not. How and why? Because, reason is not automatic, thinking is not automatic. It is volitional. Meaning you need to have to exert an effort to do the thinking. The function of our heart, stomach and other parts of our body are automatic but reason, thinking is not. Next, how does our mind function or operate? Our mind can be compared to a computer. Data are put in the computer and then process it to arrived at the resulting output. The same with our mind. Man's mind received data through our senses (sense organ) then process it. This is sense perception. But thinking is a form of concept-formation. We form ideas or concept based on the data we received from our senses. Our senses are valid form of data. They are the starting point for more further studies resulting to special sciences.

Reality, facts, the widest term existence are there outside and independent of our consciousness. The function of our consciousness is to aware, to grasp, know that existence or that which exist-reality, facts. How? by observation, by looking out.

Now what is the religious view about the nature of man with regards to knowledge? What is the religous view about the nature of existence, reality? What is the religious view of the nature of man's relation to existence. Let us identify it slowly and clearly. Under christianity the basis is the Bible, to Islam, the Koran the source of their teachings. Anybody who have full knowledge of the Bible and Koran can contribute to this forum.

Jeff
09-24-2007, 07:49 AM
I can sense where this thread will end. It will go back to the last thread which wowie ended.

agta
09-28-2007, 08:38 PM
Man is the highest form of consciousness-reason. Lower animals have consciusness but of lower level and plants are of much lower level. In short, man's consciousness (in highest form) is his mind, his reason.
Yes, among animals we know today, man maybe the highest form of consciousness-reason, whatever that means to you. But certainly, not of all rational beings is man the highest.


Under christianity the basis is the Bible, to Islam, the Koran the source of their teachings. Anybody who have full knowledge of the Bible and Koran can contribute to this forum.
Yes, true Christianity does believe in the bible, in fact the true bible is the one compiled by the true Christian. But this fact should not be construed as, "Christianity is based on the bible alone."

Jeff
10-01-2007, 09:02 AM
What is truth? What is true?

When you look at the computer, have you not ask if what you are looking is true or just an illusion. What validates the truth? How do you arrived at the truth. Is truth an illusive? Are knowledge of anything is true?

Those are the question that man confront and necessitates an answer. An answer is necessary in order to live and enjoy each individual life.

Somebody will answer: oh the bible will tell you the truth? How can we be sure that the bible is telling the truth? How can we know the true or truth?

Is there any teachings in the Bible that turned you into a bad a person? Is there any quote in the bible for you to harm yourself and to others? If nothing, so what truth are you still searching for? If you want to be a genius, read the BIBLE and everything that made your mind turns upside down will be at bay.

jun villato
01-24-2008, 04:46 PM
Truth Is Behind The Lies Vice Versa

acpatagnan
01-29-2008, 05:58 PM
This is in answer to Jeff's question: Is there any teaching in the bible that turns a person bad. Yes there are. Remember the Jones town. A pastor who wants his follower not to be disturbed by the worldy pleasures and tell them to drink the poison. How about the alleged God asking Abraham to kill his son to test his obedience. In general, the word sacrifice is the most evil teaching in the bible that turn many people evil. Another is why God banned man in eating the FRUITS OF THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE? The reason is that the alleged God of the bilbe or the writer do not want you to use your thinking power-your mind to know all things-the reality.
It is not being a genius nor not it is just a matter of simply using your thinking or reasoning tool. The question WHAT IS THE PROOF OR EVIDENCE to support the claim of the bible that god exist. Can you show in reality that God realy exist. The truth is out there and can be observed. What can we find out there? Another is they cannot even define the concept God.

acpatagnan
01-29-2008, 06:11 PM
Truth is the recognition of facts and reality. Truth is observable in reality. The earth revolving around the sun is a fact and it is true. And this is proven by means of science. Before, it is the belief of the church that it is the sun that revolved arount the sun, but a man of mind declared the opposite and show the scientific proof but what happened to him, he was excommunicated and even put to death.
Now, the question Does God exist? What is the proof and evidence to support that claim? Of course there is no scientific proof as provided by reason and logic. Because there is no such thing as God. It is only in the mind of the believers by means of faith only. Then who is telling the truth? The one that show proof to support the claim or the one that just state that and claim without any proof to support?

Bill Gregory
01-29-2008, 08:30 PM
........may be missing the point.

Perhaps Scrooge in Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol discovered truth in the end. The Temptations in the Bible perhaps should not be taken so literally.

In my simple view truth has little meaning on it's own or through absolute definitions. It's all bound up with leading a good life where you are kind and considerate to all, avoiding cheating and deception, valuing the money you have truly earned and not that obtained in any other way, treating people fairly and always taking responsibility for your own actions and mistakes. This does not prevent you from success in business or making good, fair profits. Helping those less fortunate and not boasting about your generosity makes you a wise man or woman and for the good of all you should not shirk from dealing harshly with evil-doers who are bent on doing harm to the community.

But that's just my own simple view - you don't have to have a religious faith to do any of these things, but I think all religions base their teachings and advice in ways which embody these sentiments.

justme
01-30-2008, 08:08 AM
uh uh..here we go again... Mr. acpatagnan i have one question... do you believe in God?

Jeff
01-30-2008, 08:40 AM
This is in answer to Jeff's question: Is there any teaching in the bible that turns a person bad. Yes there are. Remember the Jones town. A pastor who wants his follower not to be disturbed by the worldy pleasures and tell them to drink the poison. How about the alleged God asking Abraham to kill his son to test his obedience. In general, the word sacrifice is the most evil teaching in the bible that turn many people evil. Another is why God banned man in eating the FRUITS OF THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE? The reason is that the alleged God of the bilbe or the writer do not want you to use your thinking power-your mind to know all things-the reality.
It is not being a genius nor not it is just a matter of simply using your thinking or reasoning tool. The question WHAT IS THE PROOF OR EVIDENCE to support the claim of the bible that god exist. Can you show in reality that God realy exist. The truth is out there and can be observed. What can we find out there? Another is they cannot even define the concept God.

If you can't accept that there is really GOD then its good for you but for me speeding at 120KPH bumping a panel truck beside the road, and the car is completely wrecked beyond recognition, but because I believed there is GOD I can testify myself that with out his grace, I can't reply anymore to your senseless views at this moment.

hedwig
02-01-2008, 07:40 AM
.truth .....is the only way to set you free...

.......
The meaning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_field) of the word truth extends from honesty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honesty), good faith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_faith), and sincerity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sincerity) in general, to agreement with fact (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fact) or reality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality) in particular.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth#_note-0) The term has no single definition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition) about which the majority of professional philosophers and scholars agree. Various theories (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theories) of truth continue to be debated. There are differing claims on such questions as what constitutes truth; how to define and identify truth; the roles that revealed and acquired knowledge play; and whether truth is subjective (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjectivity), relative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_relativity), objective (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objective_%28goal%29), or absolute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_%28philosophy%29). This article introduces the various perspectives and claims, both today and throughout history.....for more pls follow this link---------------------->> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth

agta
03-15-2008, 12:08 AM
Truth is the recognition of facts and reality. Truth is observable in reality.
I agree with that. But now, let me ride in your way of reasoning. How do you know that what you see is true? Is it not possible that your senses are telling you a lie?

Jeff
03-17-2008, 11:05 AM
Speaking of truth and reality. Are you willing to take the risk by telling the truth to your wife or husband that you have an affair with other person despite that you will eventually lose them in the process??

acpatagnan
06-12-2008, 11:38 AM
I agree with that. But now, let me ride in your way of reasoning. How do you know that what you see is true? Is it not possible that your senses are telling you a lie?

Our senses do not tell a lie as you will say. Our senses just automatically capture anything that there is. When you see a glass of water with a stick on it, your eyes just capture what there is. You see the stick looks bend. What you see is that light travel differently in water, when your mind study in more detail. The data received from your sight: stick looks bend in the glass of water. What the mind, reasoning will do is to do further observation and study the why. The reason is (according to our file of knowledge in physics) that light travel differently in water.

Our senses is our first contact with reality-the real concrete physical world. It is part of our nature, our consciousness. This is our first step in knowing the truth. It is in reasoning that we form concept of knowlegde. And that is what science is all about, the discovery, the recognizing, the identifying the true in conceptual form with the use of our language. Words are audio-visual symbols of entity, attributes, charateristics, actions, ideas or concepts.:D

Science are true. It is the truth about the real world.

acpatagnan
06-12-2008, 12:00 PM
Many will say that God is true.

If God is true. Then our senses will automatically capture God's identity. Since our senses have nothing to capture, therefore, the idea of supernatural being is nothing but just a floating idea or abstraction without connections to reality.

It is true that the only being you can only find on earth is man. You and I recognized it and accept it as truth.

The basis of truth is out there-the real conrete physical world. Our senses capture what there is. Then the reasoning mind (which is not automatic) will have to dig deeper: observe and study more in detail in order to know more. Why we have to do it? In order for man to live more efficiently and happily.
:D:D:D

4everblue
06-12-2008, 07:08 PM
Today, as in the past,"Truth is fallen in the streets" (Isaiah 59:14). Therefore, as strange as it may sound to our ears, there's a real need today to talk about true truth. True truth is not relative but absolute. True truth is true even if we don't think it's true. In other words, true truth is always true. God is true truth (Jeremiah 10:10). True truth is one of the many wonderful characteristics of God (Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalm 31:5). In fact, the sum total of everything God says is always true truth (Psalm 119:160). On the other hand, the devil, "who is a liar and the father of it" is absolutely devoid of true truth (John 8:44). He is the father of all those who "suppress the truth in unrighteousness" (Romans 1:18). Consequently, we can be assured the devil is the instigator of the idea that truth is always relative and that there is absolutely no such thing as true truth.

In its simplest form, the correspondence theory of truth says that a proposition is true just in case it corresponds to reality, when what it asserts to be the case is the case. More generally, truth obtains when a truth bearer stands in an appropriate correspondence relation to a truth maker.Truth is when things really are the way one thinks them to be....

acpatagnan
06-14-2008, 04:42 PM
Human being is equiped with five senses: sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch. What is the exact function of our senses? Naturally, it is to capture everything there is to capture in the real world we live in. It's function is automatic. We can do nothing about it. No choice. They are our source of data of the outer world and no other. The mind is the one that process the data into a concept (abstract) by using words (an audio-visual) to symbolizes it in order to retained in our mind. But the function of the mind is not automatic. It is volitional. Meaning we have to exert a mental effort. An effort to identify, to identify the similarities, the differences of any entity then integrate to form a concept. We exert a mental effort to discover the proper way of thought and method.

What is the relationship of truth to our mind (consciousness)? The truth are there in the physical concrete world. The object of truth. The mind has to discover it, identify it and recognized it. Anything that is real is true and absolutely exist. But when you say it is true and real but does not exist then there is something wrong in the thinking. There is a contradiction. Then it is false (untrue) then not good and should be discarded. When you say that it is true and real but the senses cannot capture it; no data received to be process by the mind, therefore, you are not in the right way of recognizing the truth. For certainty what you call truth is not truth at all, but just words without any meaning or definition. Like the statement of 4everblue; do not accept that human sense perception is valid as our basis of truth--of knowleddge of the real physical world.

Knowledge of truth is of great value. A value that has to be acquired by a mental effort--by data received from senses then expending a mental effort to process it to arrived at a conceptual knowledge with the method of logic.


4everblue stated about reality. But what is reality? Is it real? Does it exist? Can it be captured by our senses and process it to form concept of truth, conceptual knowledge? Or just foggy words without any meaning or definitions?:D

agta
06-22-2008, 12:34 AM
ok, we have five senses: touch, smell, taste, hear, sight. Can we touch, smell, taste, or hear number 3 moving around us? Honestly, there is no number 3 moving or standing anywhere. But do we believe that number 3 exists? Or do we believe that 1 + 2 = 3? We do believe it! Why do we believe it?

Europa
06-22-2008, 05:26 PM
Why People Make Thier Lives So Complicated ? Para Sa Akin Lang Bakit Kailangan Kong I Question Ang Paniwala Ko Or Faith, Bakit Ubusin Ko Ang Oras Ko Sa Pangangatwiran Kong Bakit Ako Naniwala Sa Diyos, Bakit Gawing Complicated Ang Mga Bagay Na Napa Ka Simple Naman. Maraming Bagay Na Kapakipakinabang Kay Sa Pa Ulit Ulit Akong Maki Pag Talaktakan Tungkol Sa Anong Paniwala Ng Kapwa Ko. Sa Akin Lang Ito. Hindi Ko Na Kailangan Basahin Ang Buong Quran Or Bibliya, Para Saliksikin Ang Mga Naka Sulat Dito, Basta Naniwala Ako Sa Diyos, Bawat Tao Ibat Iba Ang Paniwala, At Di Ko Na Kailangan Tanungin Bakit? Let It Be, Ang Importante Sa Akin, Hindi Ako Pumatay Ng Tao, Hindi Ako Nag Nakaw, Hindi Ako Nagsasalita Ng Masama Sa Kapwa Ko, Wala Akong Pinuprehisyo, May Time Ako Sa Pamilya Ko, May Trabaho, May Oras Sa Paglilibang, May Time Sa Pakikipag-usap Sa Diyos Without Question In My Thought That He Is Always There For Me. Basta Alam Kong Malinis Ang Budhi Ko. Maligaya Na Ako, Faith Is Faith, Reason Is Reason, No Comparison... Peace Luv U My Cousin.

4everblue
06-23-2008, 10:24 AM
4everblue stated about reality. But what is reality? Is it real? Does it exist? Can it be captured by our senses and process it to form concept of truth, conceptual knowledge? Or just foggy words without any meaning or definitions?:D

reality? just a foggy word? of cors not! r u in reality?

ok....

Reality acts to constrain our observations about the world, preventing at least some of those observations from being completely random, arbitrary, or what we would simply like them to be. Although much of what we do in fact observe is random--far more than most people realize--not everything is. And while we humans can exert a certain amount of control over reality, that reality is not merely the creation of our thought processes. In a dream about jumping off a building, we might float to the ground unharmed. In thinking about jumping off the building, we can imagine whatever we want about the outcome. Superman can fly by and rescue us, in our fantasies. An airplane with a mattress on its wings can appear just in time. But, in reality, we fall to the ground no matter how we might wish otherwise....

Without getting too pedantic about defining reality, let me just say that our own observations in everyday life make it quite clear....

acpatagnan
06-24-2008, 11:02 AM
ok, we have five senses: touch, smell, taste, hear, sight. Can we touch, smell, taste, or hear number 3 moving around us? Honestly, there is no number 3 moving or standing anywhere. But do we believe that number 3 exists? Or do we believe that 1 + 2 = 3? We do believe it! Why do we believe it?

Yes, you are right. There is no number 3 around us. It is in the mind. It is called abstraction, conception. But the question is: IS IT TRUE? Absolutely. It can be APPLIED in our real concrete world. Mathematic is a measurement of any entity or obejcts. When we say one woman name Agta plus one dog plus one narra tree equals three living organism is true- absolutely true.:D

We believe it because it is TRUE IN REASON. :D

acpatagnan
06-24-2008, 11:09 AM
reality? just a foggy word? of cors not! r u in reality?

ok....

Reality acts to constrain our observations about the world, preventing at least some of those observations from being completely random, arbitrary, or what we would simply like them to be. Although much of what we do in fact observe is random--far more than most people realize--not everything is. And while we humans can exert a certain amount of control over reality, that reality is not merely the creation of our thought processes. In a dream about jumping off a building, we might float to the ground unharmed. In thinking about jumping off the building, we can imagine whatever we want about the outcome. Superman can fly by and rescue us, in our fantasies. An airplane with a mattress on its wings can appear just in time. But, in reality, we fall to the ground no matter how we might wish otherwise....

Without getting too pedantic about defining reality, let me just say that our own observations in everyday life make it quite clear....


what do you use in OBSERVATIONS? What do you observed? Why?

Answer: you use your five senses, then reason processess it to form concept of knowledge. What do you observed? of course, the objective real concrete world out there. Why we do it? Knowledged!!! about the world in order for us to live our life properly.:D

acpatagnan
06-24-2008, 11:14 AM
Why People Make Thier Lives So Complicated ? Para Sa Akin Lang Bakit Kailangan Kong I Question Ang Paniwala Ko Or Faith, Bakit Ubusin Ko Ang Oras Ko Sa Pangangatwiran Kong Bakit Ako Naniwala Sa Diyos, Bakit Gawing Complicated Ang Mga Bagay Na Napa Ka Simple Naman. Maraming Bagay Na Kapakipakinabang Kay Sa Pa Ulit Ulit Akong Maki Pag Talaktakan Tungkol Sa Anong Paniwala Ng Kapwa Ko. Sa Akin Lang Ito. Hindi Ko Na Kailangan Basahin Ang Buong Quran Or Bibliya, Para Saliksikin Ang Mga Naka Sulat Dito, Basta Naniwala Ako Sa Diyos, Bawat Tao Ibat Iba Ang Paniwala, At Di Ko Na Kailangan Tanungin Bakit? Let It Be, Ang Importante Sa Akin, Hindi Ako Pumatay Ng Tao, Hindi Ako Nag Nakaw, Hindi Ako Nagsasalita Ng Masama Sa Kapwa Ko, Wala Akong Pinuprehisyo, May Time Ako Sa Pamilya Ko, May Trabaho, May Oras Sa Paglilibang, May Time Sa Pakikipag-usap Sa Diyos Without Question In My Thought That He Is Always There For Me. Basta Alam Kong Malinis Ang Budhi Ko. Maligaya Na Ako, Faith Is Faith, Reason Is Reason, No Comparison... Peace Luv U My Cousin.


To Europa,

Ang tao ay kailangang ng kaalaman. Kaalaman na kung ano ang totoo. Totoo ba ang iyong pinapaniwalaan? Papaano mo it malalaman at mapapatunayan na totoo nga ba itong FAITH mo. In english, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW? How do you arrived at the knowledge about God?
Is there any proof? Sabi nila mayroon. Sabi-sabi lang pero walang maipakitang KATIBAYAN.:D

It is part of human nature to know. Mind is man's nature. Nothing complicated as long as you use your mind properly along with your five sense.

Simple lang. May Diyos ba o wala? Paano mo malalaman? Ano ang gamit natin? Reason, mind, thinking based on our sense perception. The evidence of knowledge is out there that our senses can capture. Can your senses capture the identity of supernatural being? of course there is nothing to capture.

4everblue
06-24-2008, 02:12 PM
To start with something so simple as not to seem worth stating, and to end with something so paradoxical that no one will believe it...

I think we ought always to entertain our opinions with some measure of doubt. I shouldn't wish people dogmatically to believe any philosophy, not even mine…In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don’t. It is not important what you believe, only that you believe.;)

acpatagnan
06-28-2008, 11:01 AM
Of course, it is important to know what you are believing. Whatever you believe affects your very whole life. It affects the way you live, the way you survive in life. It affects your morality, your social life, your political life, your economic life.

Man is different from low level of living things. We have the mind, the reason to know. And this is very necessary for your own life. It is not automatic to have knowledge. You have to exert an effort. Unlike the animals, their life is limited to the nature of their consciousness. They have no power to transform the world. It is only man that have that potential. To be man is to act that potential.

To know is to use the nature of your potential. To be a man is to know. To know what you are believing. It is a necessity.:D

I AM. I THINK. I WILL. (Athem)

justme
06-28-2008, 11:18 AM
Hi Mr. acpatagnan,

So what do you believed in? :)

justme
06-28-2008, 11:23 AM
To start with something so simple as not to seem worth stating, and to end with something so paradoxical that no one will believe it...

I think we ought always to entertain our opinions with some measure of doubt. I shouldn't wish people dogmatically to believe any philosophy, not even mine…In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don’t. It is not important what you believe, only that you believe.;)

Matanong ko lang kaibigan,

Kung sasabihin sayo na paniwalaan mo na si Eli Sor ay diyos, maniniwala ka ba? Hindi ka ba mag susuri kung totoo o hindi? kasi sabi mo above eh..."It is not important what you believe, only that you believe..."

Ang tawag po diyan ay "Blind Faith" kaibigan...

justme
06-28-2008, 11:30 AM
To Europa,

Ang tao ay kailangang ng kaalaman. Kaalaman na kung ano ang totoo. Totoo ba ang iyong pinapaniwalaan? Papaano mo it malalaman at mapapatunayan na totoo nga ba itong FAITH mo. In english, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW? How do you arrived at the knowledge about God?
Is there any proof? Sabi nila mayroon. Sabi-sabi lang pero walang maipakitang KATIBAYAN.:D

It is part of human nature to know. Mind is man's nature. Nothing complicated as long as you use your mind properly along with your five sense.

Simple lang. May Diyos ba o wala? Paano mo malalaman? Ano ang gamit natin? Reason, mind, thinking based on our sense perception. The evidence of knowledge is out there that our senses can capture. Can your senses capture the identity of supernatural being? of course there is nothing to capture.

Hi Mr. acpatagnan,

Dahil po ba sa hindi ninyo nakikita ang Diyos eh wala ng Diyos?

Kung ang batayan po ninyo eh yang five sense ninyo para malaman kung may Diyos o wala...pwde ko bang itanong sa inyo saan galing yang five senses ninyo? sino po bang may gawa niyang five sense ninyo?kayo po ba ang may gawa niyan? :)

peace

tawa muna :laugh:

Jeff
06-28-2008, 01:10 PM
Truth is the recognition of facts and reality. Truth is observable in reality. The earth revolving around the sun is a fact and it is true. And this is proven by means of science. Before, it is the belief of the church that it is the sun that revolved arount the sun, but a man of mind declared the opposite and show the scientific proof but what happened to him, he was excommunicated and even put to death.
Now, the question Does God exist? What is the proof and evidence to support that claim? Of course there is no scientific proof as provided by reason and logic. Because there is no such thing as God. It is only in the mind of the believers by means of faith only. Then who is telling the truth? The one that show proof to support the claim or the one that just state that and claim without any proof to support?

Alam mo Mr. Patagnan maraming namatay dun sa bagyong Fernando, ngayon sabihin mo kung anong truth and lagi mo sinasabi dito. Minamalas na tayo dahil sa mga taong gaya mo na walang tiwala sa Diyos. Pinaparusahan tayo alam mo ba yan. Siguro dapat magbasa ka muna ng biblia bago ka dada ng dada matagal na issue mo na ito di kaparin nag sasawa! Kung ayaw mo maniwala na may Diyos, siguro di ka dapat sumali sa forum na ito. Ang gumawa ng website na ito ay isang GOD fearing person dapat doon ka sa mga un believers mag daldal.

acpatagnan
07-01-2008, 08:55 PM
Hi Mr. acpatagnan,

Dahil po ba sa hindi ninyo nakikita ang Diyos eh wala ng Diyos?

Kung ang batayan po ninyo eh yang five sense ninyo para malaman kung may Diyos o wala...pwde ko bang itanong sa inyo saan galing yang five senses ninyo? sino po bang may gawa niyang five sense ninyo?kayo po ba ang may gawa niyan? :)

peace

tawa muna :laugh:

Alam mo Justme, basahin mo uli yung mga nakasulat o naisulat ko. Nasagot ko na ang tanong mo. Uulitin ko sa english. Man's first and only contact with reality is his sense organ- sense perception. Ang unang kontak ng tao sa kanyang paligid ay ang kanyang mga pandama (mata, tainga, ilong, dila, at balat). Ang mga ito ay natural na bahagi ng tao. It undergoes a long process of evolution that is life. Hindi ako nagsasabi na ginawa ko ang mga ito. Ito ay natural na mga bagay. Sino ang gumawa nito? Wala. At walang nakakaalam. Sabi ng relihiyon, Diyos daw. Paano nila ito nalaman? Ano ang kanilang batayan? Kung ang Diyos ang gumawa sa lahat ng bagay, sino naman ang gumawa sa Diyos? Alam mo ba? Ang magiging sagot mo ay base lamang sa sinasabi ng iba, ng Biblia, ng pari, ng pastor, ng ibang tao. Sabi-sabi lang yun at walang katibayan na maipakita.

Gusto kong sagutin mo ito ng sarili mong pag-iisip ayun sa iyong mga pandama. Ano ba ang Diyos? Papaano mo malalaman na may Diyos? :D:D:D:):cool:

acpatagnan
07-01-2008, 09:33 PM
Alam mo Mr. Patagnan maraming namatay dun sa bagyong Fernando, ngayon sabihin mo kung anong truth and lagi mo sinasabi dito. Minamalas na tayo dahil sa mga taong gaya mo na walang tiwala sa Diyos. Pinaparusahan tayo alam mo ba yan. Siguro dapat magbasa ka muna ng biblia bago ka dada ng dada matagal na issue mo na ito di kaparin nag sasawa! Kung ayaw mo maniwala na may Diyos, siguro di ka dapat sumali sa forum na ito. Ang gumawa ng website na ito ay isang GOD fearing person dapat doon ka sa mga un believers mag daldal.

Sinasabi mo ba na ako ang dahilan ng maraming namatay sa bagyong Frank? Patunayan mo na ako ang dahilan. Ipakita mo ang proweba na ako ang sanhi ng bagyong dumating at maraming namatay. Di ba wala kang maipakitang proweba. Ganun din sa sinasabi mong Diyos.

Ang bagyo ay madalas dumadating sa ating bansa. Yan ay totoo! Yan ay alam mo at alam ng lahat. Kailan pa ba tayo maghahanda upang maiwasan ang mga pinsala na dala ng bagyo. Ang kailangan ng mga tao ay gamitin ang kanilang mga pag-iisip. Mayroon tayong angking natural na pag-iisip. Wala tayong ibang dapat gawin ay gamitin ito. Tuklasin kung paano ito gamitin ng maayos sa ikaaayos ng sarili nating buhay.:D Yan ang aking adhikain: Maipaliwanag na ang pag-iisip ay ang iisang kagamitan ng tao upang makamtan ang kaalaman sa katotohanan. Yang pag-iisip (mind) ay natural sa ating mga tao. Bahagi ng tao. Papaano mo ba malalaman ang KATOTOHANAN? Ano ba ang katotohanan? Ano ba ang totoo? Yan ang isyu dito.

Alam mo jeff marami na aking website na napuntahan at sinasabi ko ang lahat ng sinasabi ko dito. Hindi bawal ang magsalita ng kanyang pananaw tama man or mali. Kung sino man ang gumawa ng website na ito, may paniniwala man siya sa Diyos or wala ay hindi batayan ng pagsali sa isang forum na ganito. Ano ba ang pakay ng forum na ito na may titulong: LET'S DEBATE. Ito ay tungkol sa talastasan at pagbibigay ng kanya-kanyang panig at pananaw tama man or mali. Kung ikaw ay magsusulat kailangan may maibibigay kang mga dahilan at suportahan ito ayon sa iyong mga dahilan at kaalaman.:D

Ipaliwanag mo kung ano ang mali sa sinasabi ko. Huwag mulang sabihing mali na walang katibayang suportang paliwanag.

Mali bang sabihin na walang diyos at ibigay ang mga palwanag at mga kadahilanan.:):):):D:D:D

acpatagnan
07-17-2008, 06:54 AM
When an individual person know what is true, he is happy. When you know and understand that A is A, that existence exist, then you will feel the serenity of joy in discovering the nature of it. You will have a self-esteem of knowing that you have a mind capable of discovering and understanding your surrounding and the mechanics of your thinking.

Truth is not difficult to know and understand if you know that you have the power. That power is your mind. What others says is "truth", you have the power to validate and qualify its pronouncement. You do not have to accept it immediately without the action of the processing power of your mind. But you cannot use your mind properly if you do not know how to. Just like having a car. If you do not know about the car you cannot use it properly. You have to know how the car function and works, before you can use it properly.

Correct thinking is valuable to a human being. It is a virtue that every individual human that must acquire in order to live a happy life. But what is correct thinking in knowing the truth? What is the basis of correct thinking to arrived at the truth? Deep thinking is not exactly mean correct thinking.

The biggest role and responsibility of education is the knowledge of how the mind works and it function in the life of man. Education starting at home and ending up formally outside home which is the school.

What is the the truth being taught at home and in school? It is up to you to observed and discover the effects.

To you what is truth with regards to your mind, to your life, to your surrouondings? :D

Jeff
07-17-2008, 12:47 PM
Sinasabi mo ba na ako ang dahilan ng maraming namatay sa bagyong Frank? Patunayan mo na ako ang dahilan. Ipakita mo ang proweba na ako ang sanhi ng bagyong dumating at maraming namatay. Di ba wala kang maipakitang proweba. Ganun din sa sinasabi mong Diyos.

Ang bagyo ay madalas dumadating sa ating bansa. Yan ay totoo! Yan ay alam mo at alam ng lahat. Kailan pa ba tayo maghahanda upang maiwasan ang mga pinsala na dala ng bagyo. Ang kailangan ng mga tao ay gamitin ang kanilang mga pag-iisip. Mayroon tayong angking natural na pag-iisip. Wala tayong ibang dapat gawin ay gamitin ito. Tuklasin kung paano ito gamitin ng maayos sa ikaaayos ng sarili nating buhay.:D Yan ang aking adhikain: Maipaliwanag na ang pag-iisip ay ang iisang kagamitan ng tao upang makamtan ang kaalaman sa katotohanan. Yang pag-iisip (mind) ay natural sa ating mga tao. Bahagi ng tao. Papaano mo ba malalaman ang KATOTOHANAN? Ano ba ang katotohanan? Ano ba ang totoo? Yan ang isyu dito.

Alam mo jeff marami na aking website na napuntahan at sinasabi ko ang lahat ng sinasabi ko dito. Hindi bawal ang magsalita ng kanyang pananaw tama man or mali. Kung sino man ang gumawa ng website na ito, may paniniwala man siya sa Diyos or wala ay hindi batayan ng pagsali sa isang forum na ganito. Ano ba ang pakay ng forum na ito na may titulong: LET'S DEBATE. Ito ay tungkol sa talastasan at pagbibigay ng kanya-kanyang panig at pananaw tama man or mali. Kung ikaw ay magsusulat kailangan may maibibigay kang mga dahilan at suportahan ito ayon sa iyong mga dahilan at kaalaman.:D

Ipaliwanag mo kung ano ang mali sa sinasabi ko. Huwag mulang sabihing mali na walang katibayang suportang paliwanag.

Mali bang sabihin na walang diyos at ibigay ang mga palwanag at mga kadahilanan.:):):):D:D:D


Alam mo pre, bago ko patulan yung mga banat mo bilang isang unbeliever, tanungin kita ikaw ba ay nakapag basa naba talaga ng biblia? Kasi ang tanung about truth na anduon pare koy. Tanungin kita uli, saan kaba galing pala? Tingnan natin the way you reason out that question. Saan ka galing? at sino lumalang sayo? sa mga hayop, gubat, langit, dagat, at iba pa. Sigi nga? Dapat yan ang idiscuss mo to counter what's been writen in the bible, kontrahin mo ang nakasulat unbeliever ka diba? kalabanin mo at gawin mong sinungaling lahat ang nakasulat at papatusin kita sa isang debate. Wag kang palusot, truth truth ka pa diyan. All what you said are garbage kung hindi mo mapasinungalingan ang nakasulat sa biblia. If you dont believe GOD therefore you dont believe kung ano nakasulat sa biblia, as simple as that.

Lumalabas ingrato ka sa lumalang sayo kung hindi mo mapasinungalingan ang nasa biblia.

Jeff
07-17-2008, 12:56 PM
This is in answer to Jeff's question: Is there any teaching in the bible that turns a person bad. Yes there are. Remember the Jones town. A pastor who wants his follower not to be disturbed by the worldy pleasures and tell them to drink the poison. How about the alleged God asking Abraham to kill his son to test his obedience. In general, the word sacrifice is the most evil teaching in the bible that turn many people evil. Another is why God banned man in eating the FRUITS OF THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE? The reason is that the alleged God of the bilbe or the writer do not want you to use your thinking power-your mind to know all things-the reality.
It is not being a genius nor not it is just a matter of simply using your thinking or reasoning tool. The question WHAT IS THE PROOF OR EVIDENCE to support the claim of the bible that god exist. Can you show in reality that God realy exist. The truth is out there and can be observed. What can we find out there? Another is they cannot even define the concept God.

Your line of thinking about my question is very strange. If that pastor asked his follower to drink the poison then that pastor is evil. There is no pastor would guide his followers to foolishness if he is a pastor of GOD. There are plenty of pastor who are fake pare ko, so dont generalize that when you are a pastor you are for GOD. Read the bible ang understand every context, the way you reason seems you havent read it well. "Iba ang tinitingnan sa tinititigan". Look around you and you can see the creation of GOD. Understand why they are created and for what purpose and you will know there is GOD. Even demons in the bible believe the existence of GOD as what is writen in the bible, how much more to you?

Jeff
07-17-2008, 01:02 PM
Patagnan san, kung ikaw ay hindi naniniwala na may Diyos, suggest ko lang na dapat wag mo ilagay sa iyong Birth Certificate na Roman Catholic ka or Christian o kung ano pang relihiyon. Dapat burahin mo yun. At saka kung may mga anak ka ganun din. You said you don't believe the existence of GOD, dapat totally renounce kung may ugnayan kapa sa GOD dapat walain muna yan ay opinion ko lang naman.

Jeff
07-17-2008, 01:12 PM
There is no problem about the issue of truth. That is common sense, even animals think how much to us humans we reason for truth. But there are some aspects which we need to be logic about saying or questioning the existence of GOD, for a person who is reasonable, before he seek the truth about the existence of GOD, he should ask first himself who created him/her. Kung sino ba ang lumalang sa kanya, bakit mo itanong kung may GOD kung hindi mo masagot kung sino ang lumalang sayo? Prove first where you came from and who is the maker of that "from" before you can ask who is the maker. Lahat ay may umpisa, it is very logic na hindi tayo galing sa isang accidente lang, na hindi tayo isang producto ng kidlat at bagyo or MAGIC. May pinanggalingan tayo may dahilan at yan dapat ang sagutin ni paring Patagnan. Pag isipan mo pre.

acpatagnan
07-17-2008, 04:16 PM
Your line of thinking about my question is very strange. If that pastor asked his follower to drink the poison then that pastor is evil. There is no pastor would guide his followers to foolishness if he is a pastor of GOD. There are plenty of pastor who are fake pare ko, so dont generalize that when you are a pastor you are for GOD. Read the bible ang understand every context, the way you reason seems you havent read it well. "Iba ang tinitingnan sa tinititigan". Look around you and you can see the creation of GOD. Understand why they are created and for what purpose and you will know there is GOD. Even demons in the bible believe the existence of GOD as what is writen in the bible, how much more to you?

What I am stating was a historyor event that happened. It was about the Jamestown somewhere in Africa where the name Jim Jones(a pastor) if I remember it right put up a village. All their followers where urged by him to go there and be separated from the pleasure of the world. Why did they follow him? Because of the teaching in the bible-not to be worldly. And they applied it consistently. To have blind faith means to apply and practice consistently.
There is wrong in the religious way of thinking or faith.
You have to understand the statement: A IS A. The meaning and its implication. It means existence is identity. Everything that exist is identity. Natural things and even man-made things are identifiable. Can you identify the supernatural things? Demons, angels, fairy, ghost, tikbalang, aswang, are all supernatural beings that cannot be identify in the nature of things.

What I am saying is that I arrived at the conclusion that God does not exist is through the process of reason. You cannot identify, you cannot define by means of reason about the word "God". You can identify man and form concept man. The word God is a concept that can not be identify in the nature of things. It is called floating abstraction. no identifiable connecting links to reality. Yes there are natural things (the universe, the planets) they have identity. No one knows how it started, or originated. In religious thinking, God (the unknowable) created them all. Follow that thinking, who created God? Religion cannot tell you.

In science (body of knowledge), will tell you that matter is indestructible. Maater cannot be created nor destroyed. It just changes its form. That is true. Atom (the ultimate form of matter) can only be split and be cannot be put out of existence.

acpatagnan
07-17-2008, 04:28 PM
Patagnan san, kung ikaw ay hindi naniniwala na may Diyos, suggest ko lang na dapat wag mo ilagay sa iyong Birth Certificate na Roman Catholic ka or Christian o kung ano pang relihiyon. Dapat burahin mo yun. At saka kung may mga anak ka ganun din. You said you don't believe the existence of GOD, dapat totally renounce kung may ugnayan kapa sa GOD dapat walain muna yan ay opinion ko lang naman.

The purpose of Birth certificate is for registration. You register the date and place of your birth including the name of your parents. BS is required in all government transactions. Data about what your religion or your parents religion is not important. There was no such thing as birth certificate during pre-Spanish period. If there is a record of that then we can traced back our great great great great grand father.

Ang maling pag-iisip ng marami birth certificate is only for having a religion. Religion does not and cannot proved the existence of God. They can only say there is God but cannot prove it. :D

acpatagnan
07-17-2008, 05:01 PM
There is no problem about the issue of truth. That is common sense, even animals think how much to us humans we reason for truth. But there are some aspects which we need to be logic about saying or questioning the existence of GOD, for a person who is reasonable, before he seek the truth about the existence of GOD, he should ask first himself who created him/her. Kung sino ba ang lumalang sa kanya, bakit mo itanong kung may GOD kung hindi mo masagot kung sino ang lumalang sayo? Prove first where you came from and who is the maker of that "from" before you can ask who is the maker. Lahat ay may umpisa, it is very logic na hindi tayo galing sa isang accidente lang, na hindi tayo isang producto ng kidlat at bagyo or MAGIC. May pinanggalingan tayo may dahilan at yan dapat ang sagutin ni paring Patagnan. Pag isipan mo pre.


Again there is something wrong in that statement "that animals can think". Animals are lower form of living things. They have consciousness, they are aware of their surrounding, and have sense organ (AUTOMATIC) that man shares or have also. But man is the highest consciousness. He can discover logic and correct way of thinking. But thinking is volitional meaning not automatic but you have to exert, to expend an effort. It is not automatic. You have to do it by choice. Or if you are lazy. you just accept what other says and tells without any verification on you own part. Many do that.

We, you and I are the product of procreation of your parents by means of sex. That is natural to life. What you want to know is how life originated. Nasagot ko na yan ibang postings ko. No one knows how life originated. NO ONE KNOWS HOW LIFE STARTED. Science can explained why life existed on earth. Briefly and simply stating, because the earth is in the right place from the Sun. There is no life in Venus, it is too near the sun. There is no life in Pluto, Mar and others because they are far away from the sun. The earth has the right and exact environment for life to exist (Check it out at the NASA website). The process of forming the earth takes billions of years same with the whole universe. Imagine billion years compare it to what the Bible says that God created in just three to seven days. It is like magic. You know magic. By the strike of the wand or by the click of the fingers there appear the sun, the planets and earth. Of course, you will accept it by faith. No proof that it happened that way. No one was around to record that event or to use video cam. :D


To follow the religious way of thinking, if God created the universe who created God. According to you, to religion, there must be somebody that create: Who created God? Is it not absurd. In short, the issue is correct way of thinking. Correct way of knowing truth.:D


The PURPOSE of life is to live according to the nature of a living entity. Plants and animals live according to their nature. Man will have to live according to his nature as a rational animal or being. To be a man is to think. Life is an end in itself. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action. To remain alive is to use the mind. To transform the materials of natural things for the improvement of life, for the sustenance of life, correct thinking is a virtue that each of us must acquire and master. The result and the effects is happiness, self-esteem and pride and the undiluted, guiltless joy of living. A feeling of "worth living" on earth.

What religion will tell you is to sacrifice, to obey the unknown supernatural being, and you will be reward a different life beyond the grave. Religion will tell you that life here on earth is not the true life to live. There is another reality that they are concern of. The reality of the supernatural. How do you know? Well, just accept, believe and obey God. Deny your self. To deny the self is not to use your mind, thinking. Yourself is your mind. Deny self means deny the mind.

Jeff
07-24-2008, 10:11 AM
Again there is something wrong in that statement "that animals can think". Animals are lower form of living things. They have consciousness, they are aware of their surrounding, and have sense organ (AUTOMATIC) that man shares or have also. But man is the highest consciousness. He can discover logic and correct way of thinking. But thinking is volitional meaning not automatic but you have to exert, to expend an effort. It is not automatic. You have to do it by choice. Or if you are lazy. you just accept what other says and tells without any verification on you own part. Many do that.

We, you and I are the product of procreation of your parents by means of sex. That is natural to life. What you want to know is how life originated. Nasagot ko na yan ibang postings ko. No one knows how life originated. NO ONE KNOWS HOW LIFE STARTED. Science can explained why life existed on earth. Briefly and simply stating, because the earth is in the right place from the Sun. There is no life in Venus, it is too near the sun. There is no life in Pluto, Mar and others because they are far away from the sun. The earth has the right and exact environment for life to exist (Check it out at the NASA website). The process of forming the earth takes billions of years same with the whole universe. Imagine billion years compare it to what the Bible says that God created in just three to seven days. It is like magic. You know magic. By the strike of the wand or by the click of the fingers there appear the sun, the planets and earth. Of course, you will accept it by faith. No proof that it happened that way. No one was around to record that event or to use video cam. :D


To follow the religious way of thinking, if God created the universe who created God. According to you, to religion, there must be somebody that create: Who created God? Is it not absurd. In short, the issue is correct way of thinking. Correct way of knowing truth.:D


The PURPOSE of life is to live according to the nature of a living entity. Plants and animals live according to their nature. Man will have to live according to his nature as a rational animal or being. To be a man is to think. Life is an end in itself. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action. To remain alive is to use the mind. To transform the materials of natural things for the improvement of life, for the sustenance of life, correct thinking is a virtue that each of us must acquire and master. The result and the effects is happiness, self-esteem and pride and the undiluted, guiltless joy of living. A feeling of "worth living" on earth.

What religion will tell you is to sacrifice, to obey the unknown supernatural being, and you will be reward a different life beyond the grave. Religion will tell you that life here on earth is not the true life to live. There is another reality that they are concern of. The reality of the supernatural. How do you know? Well, just accept, believe and obey God. Deny your self. To deny the self is not to use your mind, thinking. Yourself is your mind. Deny self means deny the mind.


Again you are trying to evade my question to you. Don't tell me stories about the moon and the stars. Tell me sino lumalang sa iyo sa atin lahat? Tell me if you can answer or not para wala na tayong pag uusapan.

acpatagnan
08-09-2008, 07:27 PM
Again you are trying to evade my question to you. Don't tell me stories about the moon and the stars. Tell me sino lumalang sa iyo sa atin lahat? Tell me if you can answer or not para wala na tayong pag uusapan.

Hindi ba malinaw ang sagot ko? Wala. No one created living things. We are the result of a long process of change or evolution. Do you accept that once there was a dinosures lived on earth but all vanished away? That was a very long long time ago (billion years). No human life existed during that time. In the bible there is no mentioning of that living creatures. Can you reconcile that?

You feel that I evaded your question. It is you who do the evading my answer, my question: if God created all things, to follow your wrong way of thinking, then who created? Another: What is God? Can you identify God? Use reason, correct way of thinking. God?:D:D:D:cool::rolleyes:

Jeff
08-12-2008, 09:49 AM
Hindi ba malinaw ang sagot ko? Wala. No one created living things. We are the result of a long process of change or evolution. Do you accept that once there was a dinosures lived on earth but all vanished away? That was a very long long time ago (billion years). No human life existed during that time. In the bible there is no mentioning of that living creatures. Can you reconcile that?

You feel that I evaded your question. It is you who do the evading my answer, my question: if God created all things, to follow your wrong way of thinking, then who created? Another: What is God? Can you identify God? Use reason, correct way of thinking. God?:D:D:D:cool::rolleyes:

So therefore you are not a reasonable person at all. Imagine you said no one created living things o my goodness what kind of mind you have. Ang lahat ng ito ay may reasons at pinag mulan. Kung sinasabi mo na dahil sa evolution ang evolution ay may pinag mulan. Do you know what is the meaning of evolution? Evolution is the process of change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. The genes that are passed on to an organism's offspring produce the inherited traits that are the basis of evolution. Mutations in genes can produce new or altered traits in individuals, resulting in the appearance of heritable differences between organisms, but new traits also come from the transfer of genes between populations, as in migration, or between species, in horizontal gene transfer. In species that reproduce sexually, new combinations of genes are produced by genetic recombination, which can increase the variation in traits between organisms. Evolution occurs when these heritable differences become more common or rare in a population.

Kung may kakayanan mag evolve may umpisa ang ka unaunahang evolution nangyayari sa mundo. Hindi lang basta nag evolve kundi may umpisa bago magkakaroon ng evolution. If you are a free thinker you should think that way. Hindi na basta para kanalang na nood ng sine pag pasok mo umpisa agad. Bakit naman kaya banggitin pa ng Diyos kung anong tao at halaman ang kanyang gagawin, para lang ba na masatisfy ang tao sa kanyang quest ang malaman ang lahat? Kung ikaw ang Diyos gagawin mo rin ba ang pangalan ang hayop na ang panagalan ay Dinosour? Lion, tegre? Sino ang nagpangalan nyan diba Tao? Ay nako Patagnan wa na para lang tayong bata nito. Kaya since the beginning palang sa mga forums mo hindi ako solve sa mga out of this world na mga paliwanag mo. Baka naniniwala ka sa "third Planet"?:D:D:D

Jeff
08-12-2008, 10:02 AM
Im very sad for you, because your parents or even your grand parents never taught you who is GOD napaka miserabling tao ka naman. Dapat mag Kurselyo ka muna, kawawa kaluluwa mo mapunta lang sa impyerno pre tsk tsk tsk...Pag pipiyestahan kalang ng mga demonyo dun. Yan panaman ang type ni Taning yung mga unbelievers hehehe yari ka dun:D:D:D. Biro mo walang Diyos hehehe grabe ka tol sobra. Sana nung bata kapa pumalag kanang WAG pabinyag sa pari hehehe e hindi kapala naniniwala na may Diyos. Siguro may mga pangyayari sa buhay mo na hindi mo matanggap at sinisisi mo si GOD kawawa ka naman. Bumalik kana kay Cristo pre, walang mawala sayo instead makakatanggap kapa ng biyaya. Tanggapin mo na lang wag kanga pa pride pride pa, kung ano man mga karumaldumal na nanangyari sa buhay mo, mahal ka ng DIYOS... sana patawarin ka sa mga sinasabi mo laban kay GOD... Amen!

Dito ko pinutol ang usapin na to pre... kung ayaw mo maniwala din bahala ka.

acpatagnan
08-16-2008, 09:36 PM
Im very sad for you, because your parents or even your grand parents never taught you who is GOD napaka miserabling tao ka naman. Dapat mag Kurselyo ka muna, kawawa kaluluwa mo mapunta lang sa impyerno pre tsk tsk tsk...Pag pipiyestahan kalang ng mga demonyo dun. Yan panaman ang type ni Taning yung mga unbelievers hehehe yari ka dun:D:D:D. Biro mo walang Diyos hehehe grabe ka tol sobra. Sana nung bata kapa pumalag kanang WAG pabinyag sa pari hehehe e hindi kapala naniniwala na may Diyos. Siguro may mga pangyayari sa buhay mo na hindi mo matanggap at sinisisi mo si GOD kawawa ka naman. Bumalik kana kay Cristo pre, walang mawala sayo instead makakatanggap kapa ng biyaya. Tanggapin mo na lang wag kanga pa pride pride pa, kung ano man mga karumaldumal na nanangyari sa buhay mo, mahal ka ng DIYOS... sana patawarin ka sa mga sinasabi mo laban kay GOD... Amen!

Dito ko pinutol ang usapin na to pre... kung ayaw mo maniwala din bahala ka.

Di sumuko ka rin. You are the one evading and avoiding my questions: If God created all things, to follow your religious wrong way of thinking, then who created God? So the same with the priest and pastor whom I talked to.

This is my advocacy in my life. Reason is the ONLY means of knowledge. Knowledge about the world and everything. The basis of reason is human perception, his sense perception. Man's senses is his only contact to reality, the truth about the world and there is no other way. I arrived at the conclusion that religion is wrong to say that God exist by means of reason based on sense perception. Religion cannot define, identify, and show the existence of God. Religion uses what they call faith. Faith without any proof or evidence. In other words, faith is exactly opposite from reason.

You are wrong to say that my parents did not teach me about God. My parents and my grandparents were all religious. They all tell me about God and I questioned them. Yes, they believed in God. I questioned them how did they know that there is God? Ang sagot lang nila sabi ng Biblia, sabi ng pari, sabi ng pastor. At kailangan naniwala ka lang. And even you, your answer will be the same: that the existence of God is what OTHERS says. But this is what I will tell you put aside what OTHERS told you. Use your correct, objective thinking, if you still have it. Can you defined, identify God? Who created God? What is the starting point? WHAT IS TRUTH? WHAT IS REAL? WHAT IS REALITY?

You are wrong to say that I am miserable man because I don't believe in God. I am the most happy man and I don't believe in God. I live my life with guiltless and undiluted joy. I feel my life worth living for. And that's because I am honest and true to my self which is my reason, my mind, the natural-conceptual being by choice.

It is religion that makes man's life miserable and mentally corrupt. You can observed that all around you. It is religion that makes your mind corrupt and evade the nature of it.:D:):cool:

Religion uses fear to make you stick to its evil teaching. Religion uses fear to make you not to use your mind freely and not to trust your own mind to acquire knowledge.:D

Wowie
08-17-2008, 10:59 AM
Ok this will be an off topic question.

Mr Acpatagnan, have you ever been to cursillo?

Europa
08-17-2008, 05:55 PM
di sumuko ka rin. You are the one evading and avoiding my questions: If god created all things, to follow your religious wrong way of thinking, then who created god? So the same with the priest and pastor whom i talked to.

This is my advocacy in my life. Reason is the only means of knowledge. Knowledge about the world and everything. The basis of reason is human perception, his sense perception. Man's senses is his only contact to reality, the truth about the world and there is no other way. I arrived at the conclusion that religion is wrong to say that god exist by means of reason based on sense perception. Religion cannot define, identify, and show the existence of god. Religion uses what they call faith. Faith without any proof or evidence. In other words, faith is exactly opposite from reason.

You are wrong to say that my parents did not teach me about god. My parents and my grandparents were all religious. They all tell me about god and i questioned them. Yes, they believed in god. I questioned them how did they know that there is god? Ang sagot lang nila sabi ng biblia, sabi ng pari, sabi ng pastor. At kailangan naniwala ka lang. And even you, your answer will be the same: That the existence of god is what others says. But this is what i will tell you put aside what others told you. Use your correct, objective thinking, if you still have it. Can you defined, identify god? Who created god? What is the starting point? What is truth? What is real? What is reality?

You are wrong to say that i am miserable man because i don't believe in god. I am the most happy man and i don't believe in god. I live my life with guiltless and undiluted joy. I feel my life worth living for. And that's because i am honest and true to my self which is my reason, my mind, the natural-conceptual being by choice.

It is religion that makes man's life miserable and mentally corrupt. You can observed that all around you. It is religion that makes your mind corrupt and evade the nature of it.:d:):cool:

Religion uses fear to make you stick to its evil teaching. Religion uses fear to make you not to use your mind freely and not to trust your own mind to acquire knowledge.:d

depende ha? I have religion baya and i do believe in god in heart mind and soul. Depende of how you used your mind and mentality, and yeah character ng isang tao walang kinalaman ang religion sa bawat kilos at pananalita ng isang tao, your actions, words and batasan yan ang nag papakilos ng buhay mo. Hindi religion ang nagsabi na maging doctor ka, maging engineer ka, maging presidente ka, or maging balasubas ka. Ikaw or ang tao mismo sa sarili mong katauhan. You are responsible to all your actions not your religion..you are the son or daughter of your father but you are you and he is he..you are free to think and to move what you want in your life out ang pagiging muslim mo or christian or saksi, batasan sa usa ka tawo ang nag papatakbo ng utak mo. Even kursilyo also will never guide your life the way you wanted to be..i have been in kursilyo.. I have experienced it via kidnap, i mean my friend try to invite me kuno sa ila balay kay birthday kuno niya..then dinala ako sa kursilyo sapilitan, wala akong kawala 4 na malalakas na babae ang humawak sa akin, bulong ng bulong tungkol sa diyos isuko ko raw ang sarili ko. I hated them a lot i missed my flight and a lot of prolems occurs re booking and i missed my meeting in hongkong. Hindi mo mapilit ang tao or madiktahan sa ano mang paniwala. Instead of concentrating in kursilyo they let me go for being though sobrang galit ang nangibabaw sa akin..ipatik mo man at kopyahin ang buong bible sa utak ko, wala akong tiyaga na basahin at intindihin ito..idikdik mo man sa akin ang lahat ng salita ng Diyos na naka patik sa Bibliya hindi ko pakinggan yan lalo na sa mga tao na kumidnap at pumilit sa akin. titingnan kita mula ulo hanngang paa. sino kang mag santo santohan at ikaw mismo hindi mo iniintindi kong anong malaking problema ang ginawa mo sa buhay ko.sa akin Ang iniintindi ko kong ano ang nararamdaman ko at walang kinalaman ang religion doon..maayos ang pagkatao mo, wala kang nililibak at inaapakan, nagsikap kang mabuhay ng walang sinasaktan at pinakikialaman..10 Commandments ayan lang ang guidelines ko.. Hindi ko man masunod or ma perfect lahat..FAIR pa rin ang pag katao ko..Nobody is perfect ika nga. may paniwala ka sa Diyos .ayos na sa akin yon. Simple lang ang buhay bakit gawing complicated..another 1 cent from me. The rest is up to you..

Europa
08-17-2008, 06:02 PM
And by the way i never consider reasoning as knowledge.. If you are certain of what you do and what you said, i have no reason to explain it again and again.. One word is enough for a wise man. Peace

acpatagnan
08-17-2008, 10:41 PM
Ok this will be an off topic question.

Mr Acpatagnan, have you ever been to cursillo?

NO. It is a kind of a brain-washing group.:D

jujebage
08-19-2008, 08:39 AM
Ok this will be an off topic question.

Mr Acpatagnan, have you ever been to cursillo?

dili ko kaintindi sa inyo ngano mo reply pa mo sa mga post nianing taw hana :D nga sarado man jud nig utok. i mean manginano pa kog muosig ang iro kay sigurado naa nay buot ipasabot pero kini sa pa acpatagna ( kalisod baya anig ngalan:eek:) bisan pa nig mo alulung wala guy meaning kay ang tawong walay gituhuan morag botelyang walay sulod. inig kita nimo sa pikas mulusot ra imong panan aw pod sa pikas. pirmi man ko mo visit ngari pero di jud ko ani mobasa labi na kun naay comment ning taw hana kun tawo ba kaha ni di man siguro or gikan ni sa balot :D:D kay kataw anan pa ni siya sa joke. sori wala lang.:D

Jeff
08-20-2008, 04:07 PM
Di sumuko ka rin. You are the one evading and avoiding my questions: If God created all things, to follow your religious wrong way of thinking, then who created God? So the same with the priest and pastor whom I talked to.

This is my advocacy in my life. Reason is the ONLY means of knowledge. Knowledge about the world and everything. The basis of reason is human perception, his sense perception. Man's senses is his only contact to reality, the truth about the world and there is no other way. I arrived at the conclusion that religion is wrong to say that God exist by means of reason based on sense perception. Religion cannot define, identify, and show the existence of God. Religion uses what they call faith. Faith without any proof or evidence. In other words, faith is exactly opposite from reason.

You are wrong to say that my parents did not teach me about God. My parents and my grandparents were all religious. They all tell me about God and I questioned them. Yes, they believed in God. I questioned them how did they know that there is God? Ang sagot lang nila sabi ng Biblia, sabi ng pari, sabi ng pastor. At kailangan naniwala ka lang. And even you, your answer will be the same: that the existence of God is what OTHERS says. But this is what I will tell you put aside what OTHERS told you. Use your correct, objective thinking, if you still have it. Can you defined, identify God? Who created God? What is the starting point? WHAT IS TRUTH? WHAT IS REAL? WHAT IS REALITY?

You are wrong to say that I am miserable man because I don't believe in God. I am the most happy man and I don't believe in God. I live my life with guiltless and undiluted joy. I feel my life worth living for. And that's because I am honest and true to my self which is my reason, my mind, the natural-conceptual being by choice.

It is religion that makes man's life miserable and mentally corrupt. You can observed that all around you. It is religion that makes your mind corrupt and evade the nature of it.:D:):cool:

Religion uses fear to make you stick to its evil teaching. Religion uses fear to make you not to use your mind freely and not to trust your own mind to acquire knowledge.:D

Where and what point did I evade your question? I never made mistake because I believed GOD unlike you. Si naniwala na may Dios, mas malala ka dahil daig mo pa si taning:D:D:D. I think you are miserable man, kawawa ka sumosunod ka sa maling advocacy!

Jeff
08-20-2008, 04:08 PM
dili ko kaintindi sa inyo ngano mo reply pa mo sa mga post nianing taw hana :D nga sarado man jud nig utok. i mean manginano pa kog muosig ang iro kay sigurado naa nay buot ipasabot pero kini sa pa acpatagna ( kalisod baya anig ngalan:eek:) bisan pa nig mo alulung wala guy meaning kay ang tawong walay gituhuan morag botelyang walay sulod. inig kita nimo sa pikas mulusot ra imong panan aw pod sa pikas. pirmi man ko mo visit ngari pero di jud ko ani mobasa labi na kun naay comment ning taw hana kun tawo ba kaha ni di man siguro or gikan ni sa balot :D:D kay kataw anan pa ni siya sa joke. sori wala lang.:D


HAHAHAA tama jud ka pre. Kini si Patagna pilidi pa si satanas. Way ayo!

acpatagnan
08-23-2008, 04:59 AM
Where and what point did I evade your question? I never made mistake because I believed GOD unlike you. Si naniwala na may Dios, mas malala ka dahil daig mo pa si taning:D:D:D. I think you are miserable man, kawawa ka sumosunod ka sa maling advocacy!

So, it is either you do not not know the point exactly or you just avoid or evade or because faith (religion) have corrupted the very nature and function of cognition or thinking or mind. I will tell you again the exact point:
1. Man's mind, reason is the only means of knowledge. To acquire knowledge, the tool you are going to use is the mind and there is no other way. You do not use your stomach to acquire knowledge. Knowledge about what? Knowledge about the world we live in. The base of reason is the sense perception-the evidence of your senses. And the method is logic-the method of non=contradiction.
2. Applying reason with the base on senses and the method of logic, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THERE IS GOD? What is God? This question has not been answered by you. Nasagot mo na ba ito? To answer this question, you must put aside of what others says: your parents, grandparents, priest, pastor, bible, koran etc. You must answer the question only by the honesty of your independent mind. I am not concern about your mistake whatever it is.
3. UNLESS YOU ACCEPT THAT REASON IS THE ONLY MEANS OF KNOWLEDGE, you will not get and understand my point.:D

acpatagnan
08-23-2008, 05:05 AM
And by the way i never consider reasoning as knowledge.. If you are certain of what you do and what you said, i have no reason to explain it again and again.. One word is enough for a wise man. Peace

To Europa:

I have to correct you. REASONING is not exactly knowledge. It is the means or the process of acquiring knowledge. IT IS THE TOOL OF KNOWLEDGE. Knowledge is certain if it is based on reality. our first contact with reality is our sense organ-sense perception. Knowledge is uncertain if it is base other then reason. The religious means of knowledge is faith. This is uncertain, no proof or evidence. The target of my postings are those who wanted and willing to use REASON as the only means of knowledge. :D

acpatagnan
08-23-2008, 05:25 AM
What is truth? How can you know the truth?

This is the true. Man's mind is his ONLY MEANS OF acquiring knowledge. You do not use your stomach to know about reality, about the world, about the things around you. The truth is out there. It is the mind that recognizes it or not. Using the mind is a matter of choice. You can either use it or not. You are free to do so. But you are not free from the consequences of your choice.

The base of reason is man's sense perception-his sense organ. Our sense organ is valid source of evidences of reason and the method is logic.

Do you accept this as facts of reality about the nature of man? Really accept it as absolute? Do you trust your independent mind as the only means of knowing the true-the reality? If you do then you are on the right track.

brategamete
02-20-2009, 12:20 AM
Pwede mo apil?

c mr patagnan is right regarding the mind thing.

let me just remind him that truth and reality are two different ideas.

truth doesnt necesarily involve senses. reality may be. it may not.

to illustrate, in the sense of hallucination? does an addict perceive reality through his senses?

the truth is, even if what you believe is not true, you still could believe it as truth because you were right when you said that you have a choice.

what you are asserting now is what you believe is true. but it may not. why? because truth is not relative.

how to know the truth? just believe the truth. but use you reason to test the truth. you might be misled.

actually i appreciate such philosophy.

but you are wasting your time philosophizing the peeling, you miss the banana.

you always win this argument cause we dont like this peeling.

Lets talk about the truth, the source of truth. Not your intelligence over your knowledge.

Lets talk about your reality? where you come from. argue the irrelative truth about it. Lets talk about the truth about God and its reality in an intangible sense.

what say you? ok ka?