Which 1911 for a duty gun? (Part 1)

[m1911a2]

Which 1911 for a duty gun?
I visit several internet firearms discussion boards, and one of the participants recently inquired which 1911 would be suitable for a duty gun with "minimal mods." He added that he had carried Sigs and Glocks previously. He also related that he wished to keep his investment around a thousand dollars, he wanted a lightweight frame, and that he was looking for "reliability, ruggedness and some longevity." He went on to thank everyone for answering, in advance.
This is a very good question, and one that needs answering. My reply to him follows:
This comes from one old cop to another, although you may not be old. It is almost certainly going to piss some people off. Sorry. I put my first 1911, an issued Series 70 Colt, in a duty holster in 1992. Several of them have come and gone since then. I also spent about 11 years as a firearms instructor, for two departments that had liberal firearms policies. What I am about to say is based on experience, and a genuine desire that you do not get into a fight with a gun that won't work. It comes from seeing dozens and dozens of 1911-pattern guns either work or fail, during qualifications.
Get a steel gun, and learn to live with the weight. Do not buy anything smaller than an honest-to-Colt Commander, meaning a 4 1/4” barrel and conventional bushing- and without a full-length guide rod. Given the poor quality control evident in 1911's made today, by EVERY manufacturer, you are going to have to shoot the heck out of it, with the ammo you are going to carry in it, before you even remotely consider it reliable. The alloy-framed guns are not amenable to this kind of treatment.
This isn't Sigs and Glocks we're talking about here, where you can count on them to at least work when they leave the factory. Current manufacturers of 1911's are making them to SELL, not fight wars with. All of them are guilty of this. In addition, there is no Army Ordnance Department to hold them to strict manufacturing specifications, check what they are shoving out the doors, and give them hell when they send out a bad batch- along with a returned shipment. These are the conditions that resulted in the 1911's reputation for superb reliability under adverse circumstances. Unfortunately they do not exist anymore, and you have to be your own "Ordnance Department." This will require that you have a sound working knowledge of what you are paying for, before you buy it. Get a copy of Kuhnhausen’s “The Colt .45 Automatic-A Shop Manual”- Volume One. Study it like your life depended on it. It does.
Be prepared to purchase copious amounts of ammunition to prove your new gun. While you are doing this, zero your sights precisely for 50 yards, with your duty ammunition. You will also probably have to buy a duty rig to accommodate your new cornsheller, and of course it will have to meet the requirements of your department’s firearms policy. This is getting expensive already, isn’t it? -and we haven’t even bought a gun yet. Buy yourself a half-dozen blue Metalform 7-shot mags with the rounded follower, and welded baseplate. They will stay together if you drop them on the street and they are as reliable as anything on the market. I won’t carry anything else with a 1911 duty gun.

[since1980]

Duty 1911 for local cops?

I saw one with a NORINCO clone, another rookie cop with an Armscor version. Most have 9mm pistols and .38 revolvers.

My personal carry.45 is a H&K USP compact. Not 1911 though.

I think the above article best applies to US cops.

[Jeff]

I started to fire pistol noong college pa ako way back 1983 at naalala ko yung bigay ng father ko M1911 pistol US version sya. Magandang baril, gawa ni John Browning yan magandang porma at malakas and sipa. Matagal sa akin ang baril na yun hanggang pinagbili ko after my graduation in college (walang pera pang graduate). After 4 years bumili ako ng M9 Beretta pistol, at alam ko ito ata ang replacement ng M1911A1 pistol .45 caliber (correct me if Im wrong). The M9 is more lighter, and safer at hiyang ako sa shooting range maneuver. M9 pistol has a 15-round magazine, and may be fired without a magazine inserted. This weapon can have the hammer lowered from the cocked, "ready to fire," position to the uncocked position without activating the trigger by placing the thumb safety on the "on" position.

[m1911a2]

Duty 1911 for local cops?

I saw one with a NORINCO clone, another rookie cop with an Armscor version. Most have 9mm pistols and .38 revolvers.

My personal carry.45 is a H&K USP compact. Not 1911 though.

I think the above article best applies to US cops.

Hey since1980, may i ask how long you've been carrying your H&K USP? Do you have any idea or were you aware why our cops were issued with a 9mm pistols? Have you wondered why the Army (of the Philippines) opt for the 1911 than the 9mm? Dont tell me our police force couldn't handle the "kick" of a real 1911!

Anyway, the bottom line of my thread is RELIABILITY. I don't care what pistol you're carrying as long as its reliable. Kahit made in Danao pa ang pistol mo as long as its reliable, fine with me.

Forgive me but this thread does not just for the US cops but for anyone, cops or civilian shooter interested in pistol, particularly the 1911 pistol.

[m1911a2]

I started to fire pistol noong college pa ako way back 1983 at naalala ko yung bigay ng father ko M1911 pistol US version sya. Magandang baril, gawa ni John Browning yan magandang porma at malakas and sipa. Matagal sa akin ang baril na yun hanggang pinagbili ko after my graduation in college (walang pera pang graduate). After 4 years bumili ako ng M9 Beretta pistol, at alam ko ito ata ang replacement ng M1911A1 pistol .45 caliber (correct me if Im wrong). The M9 is more lighter, and safer at hiyang ako sa shooting range maneuver. M9 pistol has a 15-round magazine, and may be fired without a magazine inserted. This weapon can have the hammer lowered from the cocked, "ready to fire," position to the uncocked position without activating the trigger by placing the thumb safety on the "on" position.

Hey Jeff, can you please enlighten me on this: "M9 pistol has a 15-round magazine, and may be fired without a magazine inserted." Nag libog ko da.

[hrampong]

hahaha tingali ang iyang bo-ot ipasabot nga bisan walay magazine, puede mapitik ang M9 bcause there are pistols nga dili puede mopitik kung walay naka insert nga magazine. Ang reason ani is for safety. (i.e. browning pistols, and some cal. .22 U.S. made pistols)

[m1911a2]

Ha ha ha ha! Being "fired from no or without magazine inserted" is very different from "mopitik or dili mopitik".

Kumusta Homer! Way klase!

[Jeff]

hahaha tingali ang iyang bo-ot ipasabot nga bisan walay magazine, puede mapitik ang M9 bcause there are pistols nga dili puede mopitik kung walay naka insert nga magazine. Ang reason ani is for safety. (i.e. browning pistols, and some cal. .22 U.S. made pistols)

Dili sa pitik lang pre kundili, dunay bala jud . Ang iya man gud Slide maka abli ug dako tupong hangtud sa length sa iya buka dli paraha sa uban nga gamay lang ang opening, masayon lang ang pag pahigo sa bala pagsulod sa chamber with out the aid of magazine. Manual ang pagsulod. Ala pa nako to ma abrihan pa ug masuta jud ang mechanism sa sulod.

[m1911a2]

Dili sa pitik lang pre kundili, dunay bala jud . Ang iya man gud Slide maka abli ug dako tupong hangtud sa length sa iya buka dli paraha sa uban nga gamay lang ang opening, masayon lang ang pag pahigo sa bala pagsulod sa chamber with out the aid of magazine. Manual ang pagsulod. Ala pa nako to ma abrihan pa ug masuta jud ang mechanism sa sulod.

Naa ko'y Armscor nga 1911 Cal.40, sayon ra man sad pag pahigo sa bala sulod sa chamber without the aid of magazine. But your not going to rely on this, are you?

I'll post sometime today the comparison between the M1911 and your M9.

[since1980]

Hey since1980, may i ask how long you've been carrying your H&K USP? Do you have any idea or were you aware why our cops were issued with a 9mm pistols? Have you wondered why the Army (of the Philippines) opt for the 1911 than the 9mm? Dont tell me our police force couldn't handle the "kick" of a real 1911!

I've had my USP for 3 years now. Official issue of the PNP is the 9mm pistol (usually Beretta 92) maybe because of its higher capacity but in any single police station you will see quite a wide variety of calibers and gun types. The PA is still fiercely loyal to the original Colt 1911 and did not follow the US Army's move towards the Beretta M9.